The truth about this service!!

The truth about this service!!

Posted by: JRM
Posted on: 2006-12-11 16:42:00

Hello, I signed up with Dreamhost about 35 hours ago.

I made the secure payment with money in my Paypal account. Nowhere in their TOS, or anywhere else is it stated that Paypal customers need to send credit card information to have their accounts activated. Why use Paypal if i have a credit card, to begin with? Does that make sense to anyone else? I don't have a credit card. But I do have money. And I paid the money and have not been given the service. I have shown them proof, and they have the payment record. So that is not legal. And I am NOT stupid.

So its been that long since I've signed up. They took my money, but have not given me service. It is theft to the full extent. I've barely slept in the time that they have left me hanging. I'm going away for the holidays in a couple of days and wanted to start a family website before I left, dedicated to my nephew who has been diagnosed with cancer. There is not much chance for that now. I've spend at least 4 of the last 24 hours writing to support in different departments, but they will not respond. They took my money like its taking candy from a baby.

I suggest to anyone else having a problem like this to head over to BBB.com, and file a complaint against this company ASAP. They steal peoples money... eg. what am I supposed to think, I tried to sign up but my money got eaten by the fraudenator? or whatever its called.

Come on, guys, I'm real, I gave you my real name, all of my details. So where is my account?

Edited by JRM on 12/11/06 04:45 PM (server time).

Re: The truth about this service!!i

Posted by: rlparker
Posted on: 2006-12-11 17:40:00

I'ts pretty easy to tell that you are frustrated, and I suspect that some of that frustration is manifesting itself in some of your writing here.

I think it is unfortunate that you are having difficulty getting your account authorized, and I have empathy for you on that count, but describing a 35 hour delay, over a weekend, in getting an account activated after an electronic payment was submitted for processing as "theft to the full extent" just evidences ignorance of what constitutes "theft".

In reply to:

And I paid the money and have not been given the service. I have shown them proof, and they have the payment record. So that is not legal. And I am NOT stupid


You don't have to be "stupid" to be naive. How is your situation with Dreamhost different than making a payment via PayPal for any other goods you are waiting to receive? Is the fact that a merchant has not yet shipped the item you ordered after you initiated your PayPal payment also "not legal"? You are talking about the "35 hours" since you posted your payment as though it is something more than about a day and a half, and that not having your account activated within that time is somehow indicative of Dreamhost's indication that they intend to keep your money without providing you with any service. Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want and there is no requirement that your beliefs be reasonable. Fortunately, for you, Dreamhost has said publicly in this forum that no charges are processed for new accounts where a charge card rubbing has been requested *until* a rubbing has been received. In addition to the business transaction issue not being "theft", it's not even clear that you have actually "paid the money" (though PayPal may well have "processed" your payment - I'd take that up with PayPal).

It's unfortunate your planning apparently did not leave you with enough time to get your website running before you leave for the holidays, but none of that has anything at all to do with your issue regarding the payments processing.

In reply to:

I've spend at least 4 of the last 24 hours writing to support in different departments, but they will not respond. They took my money like its taking candy from a baby.


The fact that Dreamhost has not yet responded to you is not an indication that they won't - even support tickets for existing customers often take more than 24 hours to be processed, and your mails obviously hit at the beginning of a business week. You didn't mention *how* you "wrote" to the different departments, but if you have not already done so you might try completing the contact form available at http://dreamhost.com/contact.cgi.

In reply to:

I suggest to anyone else having a problem like this to head over to BBB.com, and file a complaint against this company ASAP. They steal peoples money... eg. what am I supposed to think, I tried to sign up but my money got eaten by the fraudenator? or whatever its called.


Yea, that's a good idea! shocked Of course, you will have a hard time getting *any* business person, including the BBB, to treat your allegation of "they steal peoples money" very seriously once you explain that it was a PayPal payment and it's been only 35 hours since you "tried to sign up", but you should feel free to spend your time with that process if you want irrespective of the fact that you can likely resolve the matter with Dreamhost directly with the same amount of effort.

In reply to:

Come on, guys, I'm real, I gave you my real name, all of my details. So where is my account?


This is a "customer to customer" forum and, while DH staff occasionally stops by, your questions *for Dreamhost* are more likely to be handled *by Dreamhost* if you contact them directly. wink

I hope you get it worked out!

--rlparker


Re: The truth about this service!!

Posted by: michael
Posted on: 2006-12-11 18:41:00

This guy was trying to pay via an unverified paypal account. No one asked him for his credit card information. His account was disabled and the paypal payment returned. He has sent about 10 messages to support threatening to report us to the BBB if we don't enable his account and calling us all kinds of names. The threats and name calling, the references to a 'fraudinator' and things like his 'real' name all point to just a persistent fraudster trying to get around our anti-fraud system. Accusing the company you are trying to steal from crooks is kind of funny in its own way. Oh well.

Re: The truth about this service!!

Posted by: freerick
Posted on: 2006-12-11 18:48:00

JRM, I agree with rlparker, and having worked as a web hosting executive for a couple of years, I am not too surprised about your reaction, but I also know why this problem occurs.
First off, I'd just like to clarify that Dreamhost wouldn't be committing "theft" if they failed to provide you with the service that they offered, if anything, it would be considered *fraud*. Fraud occurs when one party of a transaction intentionally misrepresents the goods or services they claim to exchange with the other party. Other conditions also have to be met, but I won't bore you with the legal stuff.

Fortunately for you, the customer, there are regulations in place that specify the time frame during which a merchant (Dreamhost) is to ship the goods that you purchased, or otherwise render the service(s) that you have paid for; these regulations vary depending on the payment method you chose, and again, I won't bore you with the details, but please simply note that in most circumstances, the merchant is required to render service (activate your account) *before* they cash in the payment you have sent them. If you paid via a third-party processor (PayPal), Dreamhost must wait to accept the payment (or transfer the payment to their bank account) until they have activated your account. Until such time, you have the opportunity to cancel the payment that you have posted without much trouble, simply by contacting PayPal. Regulations governing credit card transactions are stricter for the merchant, and a little more clear cut, with more specific time frames during which the merchant is to fulfill your order, and it is usually easier for the customer to cancel the payment, even after the merchant has rendered the services, if the customer feels that they are not as the merchant has described them, or for a number of other reasons.
Therefore, you are not actually at risk of losing your money if Dreamhost does in fact fail to provide the services that you ordered.

Now, I agree with rlparker that to assume that Dreamhost will not honor their sales agreement with you because they did not process your request outside of normal business hours is more than unreasonable. Your concern in general, however, that a company might defraud you, even though you are an honest customer, is not nearly as unreasonable. It's not out of the question that a company can do such a thing, and there *are* companies out there who have such illegitimate business practices. I can assure you that Dreamhost is not one of those companies, since those companies are surely not around for a very long time, and certainly don't have a *customer base* with community forums and a support wiki, and all that, for the reasons that I stated above.

Lastly, I would like to mention that fraud can go both ways: it can come from the company, or it can come from the customer. With the advent of Internet transactions, where the credit card is not actually present with the merchant, combined with an increase in the sale of online services, such as web hosting, credit card fraud is an enormous concern for any online business. Since the person who orders the service is not actually present with the merchant, so the merchant can verify their identity, some people exploit this situation and use stolen credit card numbers to order services online. This is so widespread that law enforcement rarely, if ever, is able to find the perpetrators when the transaction amounts are so low.
When credit card fraud occurs, the consumer is completely protected from it, in most cases; the merchant is responsible for verifying the validity of the payment, and therefore the merchant has to foot the bill in case the payment turns out to be fraudulent.
Because credit cards are so widely used, banks can afford to quickly terminate merchants who show too many incidents of credit card fraud, which basically puts them out of business, since they will no longer be able to accept credit cards anywhere.
Because of this, merchants must come up with clever ways to verify payment to protect themselves from being terminated, and balance this requirement against cost as well as customer satisfaction. It is extremely comforting to me to hear that Dreamhost is waiting for your faxed authorization form to be processed in spite of your obvious dissatisfaction with the situation, because this means that their business will be around for a long time, which also benefits you, of course.

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