Kiva is leaving Dreamhost

I run a website that gives loans to the poor (www.kiva.org) . Dreamhost has crashed my site 2 times per week for a month. Today, it has been down for over an hour and we are losting $1000's.

I implore anyone to avoid dreamhost. They will give you reasons for their incompetence. The simple fact is that they should be more prepared to handle the responsibility they are given in hosting 1000's of sites. Dreamhost does not live up to their responsibility

If you are giving loans to the poor and making $1000's I would be more inclined to avoid your site rather than DreamHost. wink

In your similar post elsewhere you have been offered the chance to be moved to another server elsewhere.

Down 2 times a week is not a lot on a shared server at the cheap rates we pay. I am sure DreamHost are not doing it deliberately else they would not make any money either.

With all the money you are making and/or stand to lose you might find it a better option to use a dedicated server and pay a bit extra for a guaranteed uptime, since you are never going to get guaranteed uptimes on shared server systems. You will get best effort uptimes but not guaranteed ones. Especially when the buildings power supply blows up. smile

--
Norm

Opinions are my own views, not DreamHosts'.
I am NOT a DreamHost employee OK!! mad

You act on my advice at your own risk!

Would you shut up and leave already? I am sure I am not the only one sick up listening to you complain in 3 different threads. Sorry you had such a bad time, it happens. It will happen where ever you go.

Hope you are able to keep up the good work you keep telling us all about.

In reply to:
By choosing a business on Kiva.org, you can "sponsor a business" and help the world's working poor make great strides towards economic independence.

It sounds to me like you let companies borrow money to loan to the poor as opposed to directly giving loans to the poor.

In reply to:
Does Kiva charge interest?

No. Kiva does not charge interest to our partners.

"Down 2 times a week is not a lot on a shared server at the cheap rates we pay."

that's such a load of crap.

please explain to me why my strictly business plan which costs $80 per month is constantly going down, way more then 2 times per week......

You're paying for more features--not more reliability. They're all "shared" hosting accounts. Why would an $80 plan on the same server as a $8 plan be more reliable?

i didn't say is should be more reliable but norm1037 was trying to justify the downtime based on the cheap rates. i was just pointing out that my account is not cheap therefor his logic is BS.

by the way, my mail and sites were down yesterday and my mail has been crapping out all day today. that's 2 times in 2 days, not 2 times in a week.

i'm have been checking for system wide outages and dreamhost is telling me there are none. i've submitted a support request for email problems and have been waiting for over 2 hours. i would like to think that maybe that $80 a month would also give me a little better support but it obvioulsy doesn't.

In reply to:
i'm have been checking for system wide outages and dreamhost is telling me there are none. i've submitted a support request for email problems and have been waiting for over 2 hours. i would like to think that maybe that $80 a month would also give me a little better support but it obvioulsy doesn't.

Good luck with that. I put in a ticket over 6 hours ago about it (Same as you - no outgoing email yesterday, no retrieving it today). Nevermind that we've not had anything approaching reliable email for months.

- BRoach

Actually, he said, "on a shared server" - then added the cheap rates. Shared server is the key phrase.

I'm paying $15/month here and not having problems, which doesn't mean anything either. There are hundreds of servers here. I happen to be on one that isn't having problems. When I have problems, you might not. That's shared hosting.

I've had problems at every host I've ever tried. The only exception has been when I use my own dedicated servers and I'm not at the mercy of other users in a shared environment.

If the good didn't outweigh the bad, I wouldn't have been here since 2002. I have other accounts at other hosts as well--they have their problems too... just not the same time that DH happens to have theirs.

In reply to:
i've submitted a support request for email problems and have been waiting for over 2 hours. i would like to think that maybe that $80 a month would also give me a little better support but it obvioulsy doesn't.

DH clearly states that they try to answer within 24 hours for all plans. Why would you expect it to be different for you than what they clearly state? $80 might seem like a lot to you because you're comparing it to $8, but it's still just another shared hosting plan. Price a fully managed dedicated server with quick response times and let me know if you still think $80 is a lot. ;)

I know the DH fanboys will simply change the Apology Du Jour to something else, but I don't remember seeing "24 hours" in their advertising. Looking it up from the current "sign up" pages here's what you'll find:

We offer the same unparalleled technical support free to all our customers, no matter what your plan! You can contact support at any time day or night, every day of the year via email at support@dreamhost.com or through our web panel. From there you can also access your full support history including all account-related emails ever sent to you! We do not offer phone support currently as we feel it would be impossible to offer the quality services we do at the price points we do were we to take it on. However, our customers generally agree they'd rather send an email and have their solution within a few hours than wait on hold for hours just to talk to somebody on the phone who doesn't even understand their problem! We have some of the happiest customers in the industry, mainly due to our very high quality support team!

Your personal definition of "unparalleled technical support" and "have their solution within a few hours" must be radically different than mine.

Oh, and even though they no longer even bother to call you when you choose the callback option (the more expensive plans get that), they still "charge" a call to your account.

I really want to buy some of whatever you're drinking that makes you believe that the level of service being provided to people paying for "business" accounts is anywhere near the level you'd receive from a competing, reliable hosting company charging the same amount of money.

Our industry is fairly tight knit. I know what the biggest competitor is using for hosting. They're never off the air, and aren't paying much more than we are. We're currently looking at moving to the same hosting company they're using.

- BRoach

http://dreamhost.com/support.html

"We strive to answer all emails within 24 hours, and most are answered in subtantially less time."

I can read. I guess that makes me a DH fanboy!

If you believe what you type, then leave. If you believe everyone has a better host than you, then you're making yourself look stupid by staying here and whining about it.

After all, you're shelling out a massive $80/month -- I'm surprised you don't have hosts begging you to switch.

I don't know who your competitior is, but I do know that he's not on a shared host that never goes down.

$80 isn't as much as you make it out to be. You'll know when your site is actually important when decide to shell out some cash for redundancy. Or just keep whining--I'm sure that will fix everything!

In reply to:
please explain to me why my strictly business plan which costs $80 per month is constantly going down, way more then 2 times per week......

Well, first of all, "constantly" is a non-specific kind of term I can't really respond to; the last three weeks have been bad, but none of the sites I manage at Dreamhost were subjected to "constant" downtime even in the thick of the crisis, so I can only guess what to tell you here. Your frustration probably has a direct relationship to your expectations of what "uptime" you should be getting for your money, abd it has been unusually proplematic of late at Dreamhost. That said, "constantly" reamains a meaningless term used in this context.

As for the "please explain to me why" whine ...er...uh...duh! Your "Strictly Business" plan lives on a shared server...shared servers do go down periodically for all kinds of reasons (most of which, I suppose, may be too complicated for someone who thinks $80.00 a month is a significant of money to invest in "business" infrastructure to grasp). However,there is a pretty good "explanation" of circumstances almost certainly related to your recent experience at [url=http://blog.dreamhost.com] the Dreamhost blog.

If the posts there, and at status.dreamhost.com, don't sufficiently "explain" why shared servers go down, I'll just file this one under "clueless"...

--rlparker

Dude, cut the crap. Really. Are you really making that much money from DH referrals that you need to defend them here?

I'm glad you think that multi-day outages for the entire network are caused by "Shared hosting", and that incompetent admins pushing bad config files to email servers and/or their auth server failing is also caused by "Shared hosting", and that file servers failing on a regular basis are due to "Shared hosting". Or any of their major issues are due to "Shared Hosting"

Please, save it for someone gullible enough to use your promo code.

No one here is talking about the usual problems you have with Shared Hosting. Hell, if that's all it was, I'd have no problem with it. The first year we were here (as stated), that was all it was - small problems you expect ... and it was dealt with quickly, and efficiently.

The Fact is, none of their major problems have anything to do with other users on our servers.

yeah I agree, it doesn't mean that if someone makes XXXX$/mo/week/day on website it must use a "expensive" server

it's about server uptime
not about "it's because shared host" then u can tolerate the uptime.

he pay for the service that DH's promised
well... if you need so much uptime I suggest u move on to another host

I check your site, it's really2 slow to load
even I feel that DH's speed is not same like before
average speed just 50-400kB/s (but really, it's rare up to 400kB/s)

before this happen I can dl to 1.4MB/s

and you know what
I never check my uptime w/ siteuptime anymore since it's useless, it never reach 99% uptime

In reply to:
Dude, cut the crap. Really. Are you really making that much money from DH referrals that you need to defend them here?

Did you fall off your skateboard and bump your head, or what? Actually, I have never made any money from DH referrals. I don't use them, and have never published a promo code. If you were at all curious, my opinions on that whole subject have been stated many times on these forums: I think it is a conflict of interest to profit from a promo code when you are being paid for your advice. I *do* make money developing websites for clients and consulting on internet connectivity issues with clients. Dreamhost does not need me to "defend" them. That is completely irrelevant. It either works for *you* or it doesn't. At the end of the day, it "works" for me, and my clients. It obviously isn't working for you. Big Deal. Are you angry about that? If so, get over it, and yourself, and make a mature and intelligent business decision to move on. It is just juvenile to whine about it.

In reply to:
I'm glad you think that multi-day outages for the entire network are caused by "Shared hosting"

I never made such a representation, and I don't believe that such a representation is true. The reasons for "multi-day outages for the whole network" have been well documented in this forum, on status.dreamhost.com, and on blog.dreamhost.com. "Dude", learn to *read*!

As for many of the other problems you describe as being unrelated to the nature of shared hosting, you should know that to technically profficient people, you only advertise your ignorance if you maintain that many of these, or other of "their major issues" are unrelated to the nature of shared hosting: Multiple users, with widely varied levels of expertise (just read these forums for an indication of what I mean), running multiple scripts has *everything* to do with the stability of shared hosting.

Only a complete moron would argue that a single server under the control of a competent admin, who controls what is run on the server and how it is configured is less stable than a multi-user server. As for failing on a "regular basis", any one who has been educated at all in the nature of hardware understands that things will fail. The point of my post (apparantly completely lost in the "Dude, cut the crap" indignation that someone does not agree with you) was that if you believe that Dreamhost shared hosting, warts and all, does not meet your needs, just make a business decision and vote with your wallet; spend your money on a host that is more suitable to your needs.

My post also points out that YMMV, as there are others that still feel the scope of services Dreamhost provides for the money they charge make hosting many kinds of sites with Dreamhost a good "business" decision. Not true for everyone, or for every kind of site, but true for many sites run by business people not afflicted with the "Dude" language/education/intelligence impediment.

In reply to:
Please, save it for someone gullible enough to use your promo code.

Well, that have to be more magical than gullible, as I have never published a promo code...I guess that old skateboard injury is acting up again wink

In reply to:
No one here is talking about the usual problems you have with Shared Hosting.

Actually (again, "Reading is Fundamental") many on these forums are talking about *exactly* these kinds of "usual" problems with their "mission critical", "fighting childhood cancer", "losing thousands of dollars a day", ("insert your vitrolic here") posts that *are* related to the nature of sharing a box with "skateboarder" admins.

In reply to:
The Fact is, none of their major problems have anything to do with other users on our servers

Obviously, you have a limited understanding of what constitutes "major problems". Power failures, filer crashes, infrastructure expansion related issues (or three) that take some time to fix are part of the game at this price level and, while they are "major" while they remain unaddressed, and could become "major" again if nothing is learned, they go away when resolved and might not surface again for a considerable period of time if steps are taken to prevent them. I think other kinds of problems are also "major" problems, and that are likely to be routine and ongoing in nature, becuase they are primarily related to sharing a box between users.

One thing *good* about shared servers is often the truly problematic users are also the most clueless, and are the first to scream "the sky is falling" and leave when things happen they can't understand or that they feel their few dollars a month should have prevented. That makes the shared boxes an even better deal for those that realize there is good value to be had in a scope of services as broad as those offerred by Dreamhost for very little money and that "everything breaks" on occasion.

--rlparker
"No Promo Codes since 1998"

In reply to:
it doesn't mean that if someone makes XXXX$/mo/week/day on website it must use a "expensive" server

Being that you don't define "expensive" it is hard to argue your statement's accurracy. What I was trying to say is that the kinds of redundancy upon redundancy, back-up systems for back-up systems, and general hardening necessary to virtually eliminate "downtime" are not cheap. Service agreements that tie monetary compensation to uptiime performance is not cheap. Business interruption insurance is not cheap. That said, "expensive" is in the eye of the beholder. I think I agree with you in that just because a site is "making money" does not mean it needs all those things; it might only be profitible *becuase* of the fact that the hosting is inexpensive.

It *is* about server uptime. Stuff breaks. All of these issues, while in and of themselves are not purely "shared server" related, they are greatly magnified and complicated by the distributed processing networking model used to support hugh numbers of "virtual hosts".

Hardware failures cascade from a single down server to whole groups of users. On a dedicated server, that crash only takes out a single user, on shared servers large bunches of users go down. Downtime *is* impacted by the nature of shared hosting. What we are seeing here is that when stuff breaks, Dreamhost fixes it, and all the users who are unhappy with the speed of their sites on shared servers, the stability and/or capabilities of their email on shared email servers, and the performance of their databases on shared MySQL servers will miss the point entirely.

The overwhelming majority of users are well served by the service/value Dreamhost provides, and those who are not really should re-evaluate what they are willing to pay for what they hope to have.

Dreamhost had a bad month; stuff broke and mistakes were made. It happens. it has already been discussed near to death. You either believe it is satisfactory for you or it is not, believe Dreamhost is trying to improve stability and speed across the board or they are not, and you move your hosting or you don't.

Either way, they choice is yours, so I don't understand the frantic blathering. If something is becomes unpleasant for me, I don't stay around and continue to pay so I can suffer and complain. I go find something more satisfying.

I think a lot of what we are seeing in these threads are the protests of those that really believe that $8-$80 a month can buy them hardening and redundancy that would cost thousands per month (at least several hundreds) to provide under any kind of a guaranteed uptime model.

Those that are realistic can, and do, easily see that a lot of smaller e-commerce and other web business models can only remain profitable without that big nut, and that Dreamhost can provide a great value *for those kinds of businesses*. If your site is getting successful enough to have your business *severely* impacted or curtailed by the occasional outage, you really need to be prepared to spend a whole lot more money and take respponsibility for having spent so little to protect yourself from the ravages of the next "crash".

--rlparker

In reply to:
rlparker said

I really understand
but the problem is still remain unsolved
*this problem*that problem*problem again*more problem*

you know what lucky me I never use the mail service (gmail rocks), lucky for me I don't use Dynamic site, lucky me because I don't use my site to gain profit

because when my site down I don't feel any loss

so? the point is... when you make a internet business, find another host!

specially when u dealling w/ $XXXX money every month

You may want to read all the words of the whole thread again, starting from the top. I was actually replying to the original poster 'mattflannery' not you.

Why should I explain to you why your 'plan' is constantly going down, ask DreamHost not me. Why do you think you are so important that I have to explain your account problems? Are you a relative?

If you have taken out the level 4 plan why not use the telephone support option? I am sorry if you are having problems with your account but I cannot fix it for you.

In commenting to 'mattflannerys' original post it is right to say that down 2 times a week on a shared server at such cheap rates is not a lot.

--
Norm

Opinions are my own views, not DreamHosts'.
I am NOT a DreamHost employee OK!! mad

You act on my advice at your own risk!

"If you have taken out the level 4 plan why not use the telephone support option?"

because they don't call you and charge a phone call to your account. i've tried that option a few times and never once recieved a call.

In reply to:
I'm glad you think that multi-day outages for the entire network

What multi-day outages? My services were down for a few hours during the well-documented Los Angeles power outage, but apart from that outages have been merely sporadic (according to my monitoring service) - and never lasting for more than a few minutes.

Frankly, I think everyone is making a big fuss over hardly anything. Although the service has been poor over the last 3 weeks, that is an exception rather than a norm.

In reply to:
because they don't call you and charge a phone call to your account. i've tried that option a few times and never once recieved a call.

I've done it twice and gotten a reasonably prompt return call each time.
And if I didn't get a call back I'd be bitching about it to the DH staff.

Are you in the United States? If not, that's probably why you're not receiving calls.

In reply to:
so? the point is... when you make a internet business, find another host!

That's not even close to being the point. The point is R E D U N D A N C Y.

If you have a red car that gets a flat tire, would you grab the spare tire, or paint the car blue? Why have a spare tire in the first place? Oh wait, I know... the solution would be to replace the 3 tires that aren't flat with a different brand.

I think a lot of people would just leave the car on the side of the road forever and dedicate the rest of their lives to whining on a tire forum.

The DH apologistas are working overtime these days aren't they.

"The DH apologistas are working overtime these days aren't they."

Translation: I'm a little baby so everyone should be! WAAAAA!

I guess you'd like it better here if everyone was a whining clueless retard?

In reply to:
I think a lot of people would just leave the car on the side of the road forever and dedicate the rest of their lives to whining on a tire forum.

Heh-heh. A sig-worthy observation!

As a result of the fiasco of the last couple of months, I DID get a dedicated server. I registered a bunch of domain names through DH, and I find out today, 5 days after I changed the nameservers and after they were resolving to the new server, THAT THEY'RE POINTED BACK AT DREAMHOST. Most of these domains were registered in the last 60 days, so if I transfer them elsewhere I'm going to be out approx $300. That's more than an ENTIRE YEAR of hosting.

I've been going through hell for a week now trying to login so I can move my email off their servers.

I never expected 99.9% uptime. But certainly 75% is reasonable? I think the last week I'm lucky if they're batting 50%. Should I just pay my hosting 50% of the time?

I've been recommending clients to DH for 3 years, but enough is enough. Some of you are getting militant in your support of DH. YOU may not be having issues, but lots of people evidently are as stated in the post. Why do you feel it's ok to flame and abuse these people for expecting to get what they paid for?

Regardless if it's a cheap service, DH should provide what they are selling. If they are only going to sell 75% uptime, then they should be stating that. Some web hosts I've seen post their uptimes right on their products page.

================================
Angela Gann
CrimsonDryad Web Design Services
Web Design, Custom Software Development
http://www.crimsondryad.com

Dreamhost isn't down 7 - 15 days per month.

Even if they went down for a full 24 hours every month, which they don't, even that would be around 97% uptime.

Not to say they don't have their problems, but your numbers aren't even close to being accurate. If you find a host with 50% uptime, it probably means they went out of business 15 days ago and you didn't get the memo.

In reply to:
Some of you are getting militant in your support of DH. YOU may not be having issues, but lots of people evidently are as stated in the post.

Convenient that you worded that to work out in your favor. MOST people aren't having problems and being stupid little babies about it. What exactly are the unhappy DH customers gaining by annoying the ones that are?

If you hate DH, then leave. Period.

This is a customer forum for helping each other, just because YOU have problems, doesn't mean everyone else does. The whiners that pollute every thread with their "DH is teh suck!" mentality does nothing but annoy those of us that have brains.

Then you have the ones that claim to hate it here, but refuse to leave. Even they don't believe the crap they're talking. They'll say, "you just like them because you get promo code money." Noo... I liked them for years before those came along. And this is another argument that shows what retards these people are. The promo codes make us LOSE money. How is giving away my $97 to a stranger better for me than if I got the full $97 like before the promo codes came along?

And if I didn't like them, I'd leave, which is obviously too hard for the whining retards on this forum to figure out. No one takes whining idiots seriously, so I think they're overestimating the impact they have on DH's business.

Angela,

I appreciate your excellent and well-stated post, and am sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having getting your DNS properly set up on the domains registered with/via Dreamhost. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be, and make me grateful I have kept (the majority of) my domains registered with a different registrar than my host (Which makes "rolling over" to "back-up" hosting much easier to do when things crash badly at one host!).

In reply to:
Some of you are getting militant in your support of DH. YOU may not be having issues, but lots of people evidently are as stated in the post. Why do you feel it's ok to flame and abuse these people for expecting to get what they paid for?

That is a good observation, and I'm glad you posted it here. It is probably a good idea for all to recognize that frustration leads to postings that often read as hysterical, and responses that can deteriorate from, curt to sarcastic, to just "plain ol' mean".

*I* do not think it is ok to "flame and abuse" people for "expecting to get what they paid for". I also don't think is is ok for those who are frustrated and who feel they are in that catagory to attack and belittle those who dare to share that they have had a different/better experience than they have.

When passions take over pens, the discussion generally deteriorates.

I don't think even the most ardent "supporter" of Dreamhost can deny that things have been rough of late. What some of us are saying, however, is that at the end of the day, when the "bitching and whining" is done,it is time to make a decision about what is best for your/your clients and get on with it, like you have done.

I've enjoyed, and benefitted from, your past posts here and, while I'll miss your presence on these forums, wish you all the best with your shiney new dedicated server. I suspect that, if things do not improve (or, depending upon your experience with DH, return to "normal") rapidly, many of us will find it appropriate to make the same decision you have made. I'm interested in seeing what develops. Dallas just made an interesting post on another thread along these lines, which some in this thread might appreciate (or not!) reading.

Good luck with getting the DNS sorted out, and stop back in here now and then when you are bored or want to "talk tech"; I know that I and many others will welcome your posts.

--rlparker

This last month there hasn't been ONE day where I didn't have issues of one sort or another. Mostly, it's been email...but it's STILL downtime if ALL services aren't working correctly.

In reply to:

In reply to:
This last month there hasn't been ONE day where I didn't have issues of one sort or another.

I'm not surprised... but this forum is about webhosting. :D

In reply to:
This last month there hasn't been ONE day where I didn't have issues of one sort or another. Mostly, it's been email...but it's STILL downtime if ALL services aren't working correctly.

That's one service, on one server. Dreamhost has thousands of customers on hundreds of servers. That still doesn't explain a ridiculous claim of 50 - 75% uptime. Don't make up random percentages if you don't want to be questioned on it.

Also, if you pay attention, you'll notice that when people advertise 99.99999999999% uptime, that's network uptime. They could unplug your server and throw it in a dumpster and that wouldn't lower their uptime.

In reply to:
Why is it that you feel the need to disparage every person who doesn't agree with you? I didn't call you names. The only person who looks like a stupid little baby here is you for behaving this way.

Boo hoo. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing with me. The problem is with people that think because they have problems that the DH forum should become their own personal anti-DH headquarters. AND that the non-whiners are only pretending to be happy here because they want to refer people. The clueless just can't grasp that what seems like a disaster to them might only be affecting one out of thousands of people -- that's not a reason for someone to not sign up here.

I've left plenty of lousy hosts before and guess what... I don't still whine and cry on their forums.

People don't get jumped on for sharing negative experiences here--we've all had them. But if you can't do it without all the whiny "F*&^ Dreamhost" or "I'm losing $10,000,000 per minute because of DH" crap, it's not helping anyone and it's going to get a negative reaction. If people actually read these forums before posting, they'd already know that.

In reply to:
This is a customer HELP forum. Therefore, by your own admission, if a customer is unhappy and looking for HELP, then this is the place to be, right?

People that are looking for help here generally get it, if it's not something that must be handled by support.

There's no excuse to come here with the whining and crying and taking it out on customers that are happy to be here and spend time here helping others. If these jerks are taking the same tone with support, it's no wonder they're not getting any help.

In reply to:
As I mentioned, I AM leaving. I was a customer with DH for over three years.

I've been here longer and I'm not leaving. Every host has customers that stay or leave, since there isn't much of a third option available.

In reply to:
(in fact, I had a friend of mine sign up right before the snafus occurred). Now I'm in the position of explaining to my friend who *trusted* me how I could recommend a company that is doing such a crappy job.

If you really feel bad, you'll give your friend a free account on your new server. Or you could just explain that DH, LIKE EVERY OTHER HOST ON THE PLANET, will have problems and it was just a matter of bad timing when they signed up.

In reply to:
My new server is working just fine.

And so was DH when you got here. All hosts are perfect at times and all hosts have problems at times.

Ok, to an extent I see your point. If someone is complaing that they had to wait *5 whole minutes* to get their email, that's definitely whining. And your statement about ALL web hosts having downtime is true is well. But it's a matter of scale.

You may as well compare the Atlantic to a pond and make the same generalization - "But they BOTH have water."

A couple of hours of downtime a month, or even a week, would be ok. You shrug and go on. But a complete power outage, DNS issues over a 6 month span, email issues that last WEEKS, are not just of the "pond" variety.

So if you're willing to say that *some* customers having issues aren't an reason for others not to sign up, then the opposite must also be true....that because *some* customers aren't having issues isn't necessarily a reason for new customers to sign up and believe they're getting a good deal.

I believe in good service. If a company or a waitress, or whoever gives me good service and goes beyond the call of duty, they will win my support, goodwill, and acclaim. But if they aren't doing their job, then I'm not going to just shrug and say it's ok. It's NOT ok.

I really don't care why you're refering people. Personally, I think you should all be wearing the tinfoil hats right now for continuing to evangelize about a company whose track record has proven that they've got major issues, but live and let live, right? I feel bad for the people who you're refering who are going to feel cheated when they find out things aren't so great. If you have the time to sit and wait, then yay for you. I just don't think it's right to beat up on the people who can't wait anymore.

As for your statement that DH has thousands of servers...that would lead me to believe that the downtime experienced by each customer should be VERY small because by sheer numbers their chances of benig affected should be low. They AREN'T. Network-wide issues of the type DH has been experiencing are significant and troubling.

================================
Angela Gann
CrimsonDryad Web Design Services
Web Design, Custom Software Development
http://www.crimsondryad.com

In reply to:
You may as well compare the Atlantic to a pond and make the same generalization - "But they BOTH have water."

If you want to scale things, that puts most problems in DH's favor.

If DH has one server go down, it's a small problem. The other end of the scale would be the ton of hosts that are running on one dedicated server. When they have a server go down, it's a complete shutdown.

In reply to:
A couple of hours of downtime a month, or even a week, would be ok. You shrug and go on. But a complete power outage, DNS issues over a 6 month span, email issues that last WEEKS, are not just of the "pond" variety.

What about the years where nothing goes wrong? This is why redundancy is what helps when there's a problem--not switching to another host by itself. When they have their problems, you're in the same position again.

In reply to:
So if you're willing to say that *some* customers having issues aren't an reason for others not to sign up, then the opposite must also be true....that because *some* customers aren't having issues isn't necessarily a reason for new customers to sign up and believe they're getting a good deal.

You hate math, don't you? That would only make sense if it was close to being an even split. Most of DH's thousands of customers are happy and staying. Do you understand the difference between most and some?

Most of the happy ones don't have a reason to post here. It's the whiners that ruin the forum for people that have other things to do besides cry.

Do people like you need for thousands of us to post every 5 minutes stating that everything is fine? Do you really not get how far off you are on understanding the ratio of happy customers vs. unhappy customers.

DH is one of the biggest hosts on the planet. Do you think they got this big because everyone hates them and would rather be somewhere else?

In reply to:
I believe in good service. If a company or a waitress, or whoever gives me good service and goes beyond the call of duty, they will win my support, goodwill, and acclaim. But if they aren't doing their job, then I'm not going to just shrug and say it's ok. It's NOT ok.

Then you leave and move on. Common sense. But the reality of it, even though you choose not to accept it, is that most people disagree with you. That's why there aren't thousands of DH'ers following you to your next host, which you'll eventually be complaining about, too.

And again, I think (and many others do as well) that their level of honesty and transparency makes up for a lot of the problems. So does the fact that they let people speak out on their forum and blog. You won't find that with many other hosts, if any at all. The whiners here would have been deleted and banned with most other hosts.

In reply to:
Personally, I think you should all be wearing the tinfoil hats right now for continuing to evangelize about a company whose track record has proven that they've got major issues, but live and let live, right?

Well, you almost made it through a whole post without sounding like an imbecile.

What their track record shows, is that they've continued to grow and succeed for almost 10 years in an industry where most businesses fail within a year. You should probably mention that part when you're talking about track records.

In reply to:
I feel bad for the people who you're refering who are going to feel cheated when they find out things aren't so great.

Speak for yourself. The people I refer seem much smarter than you and understand what shared hosting is, so you don't need to worry about them.

Dreamhost has a 97-day money back guarantee. My referrals are in the triple digits. Only one has ever refunded. Do you really think that many people stay because it's awful, but I said it's great? Nope. Like I said, the problems affect a small amount of people--and that happens everywhere.

In reply to:
If you have the time to sit and wait, then yay for you. I just don't think it's right to beat up on the people who can't wait anymore.

People whining on this forum have plenty of time, otherwise, they wouldn't be here whining when they could be getting something done.

In reply to:
As for your statement that DH has thousands of servers...that would lead me to believe that the downtime experienced by each customer should be VERY small because by sheer numbers their chances of benig affected should be low. They AREN'T.

Hundreds of servers, thousands of users.

That doesn't make sense--a problem is a problem. If there's one bad server in 100, and you're on it, you're going to feel it. So will the other 500 people on the server. Meanwhile, the 49,500 people on the 99 good servers are happy.

Again, most people at DH are not having the problems and are happy to be here. The ones that aren't happy should leave. This isn't exactly rocket science.

In reply to:
Network-wide issues of the type DH has been experiencing are significant and troubling.

That power outage was one of the few network-wide problems. Again, like with the percentage thing, you don't seem to realize how small the problems might be that seem big to a small group sometimes are. If my mail is fine and sites are up, while yours aren't, that's not a network-wide problem.

If someone isn't happy here, they should definitely leave. What they shouldn't do is throw tantrums here and annoy those of us that choose to be here. We don't follow the ones that leave to their new host's forums and trash it, so they should grow up and do the same.

It's getting hot in here...

In reply to:
I'm glad you think that multi-day outages for the entire network are caused by "Shared hosting", and that incompetent admins pushing bad config files to email servers and/or their auth server failing is also caused by "Shared hosting", and that file servers failing on a regular basis are due to "Shared hosting". Or any of their major issues are due to "Shared Hosting"

I haven't seen any multi-day outages for the entire network. Personally, the only problem I've had with e-mail is using the address as the user name the past few days (it's been a little flakey), but I don't use e-mail much. I would bet that more of the hardware problems are due to voltage spikes from the unreliable power at the garland building than from "incompetent" admins.

Has data actually been LOST lately, or are people just complaining about redundancy more than normal?

Check out Gordaen's Knowledge, the blog, and the MR2 page.

on a nicer side note, I'd just like to dito what rlparker said. I totally sympathize with you and hope to see (or more technically read) you around in the future.

--Matttail
art.googlies.net - personal website

So how have things been then?
Did Kiva leave?
Did the twins find out?
Were Fred and Doris actually married or was the banana plantation just a red herring?
Can Maggie and Ken ever get back together again after Kens affair with Petunia?

I missed most of the plot but I think I have the gist!

--
Norm

Opinions are my own views, not DreamHosts'.
I am NOT a DreamHost employee OK!! mad

You act on my advice at your own risk!

< Save up to $96 at Dreamhost with 96DOLLARSOFF promo code (I get $1).
Or save $97 with TAKESEILERSCASH.>

This is all you need to know about Seiler and why you will never convince him otherwise, he is a DH puppet....and btw, for those of you out there not "in the know", you still make money on these DH $xx off promos, they are just given money in other ways, unless seiler himself has not realized that yet :p

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

In reply to:

< Save up to $96 at Dreamhost with 96DOLLARSOFF promo code (I get $1).
Or save $97 with TAKESEILERSCASH.>

This is all you need to know about Seiler and why you will never convince him otherwise, he is a DH puppet....and btw, for those of you out there not "in the know", you still make money on these DH $xx off promos, they are just given money in other ways, unless seiler himself has not realized that yet :p

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

Looks like the forum retard needs some more schooling.

The sig is me giving away my $97 referral fee to complete strangers. Are you doing the same? I could buy a car with what I've given away in referral fees. DH is getting rich from my referrals--not me.

You seem like an idiot, so I'll guess that the secondary referral fees that everyone knows about are what you're referring to as top-secret mystery income.

Sooooo... you see giving away $97 to tons of people, but getting a $5 referral fee every few months as me making a killing off being dishonest? That's why no one on this forum has ever accused of being smart.

Since you once again posted without having a clue about what you're talking about, here's your free lesson for the day:

I've been a customer since 2002. Are you still with me? Or has your mind already drifted off so you can start working on your next whiny post?

Here comes the important part, so pay attention...

You DO NOT need to be a customer to post in the forum, or sign up for the affiliate program.

That means I'm a customer by choice. But hey, don't let reality interfere with your forum trolling.

Is this the situation you saw in your empty little head that made you post this crap:

I pay a customer $97 to host here, instead of keeping the $97. How selfish of me! The customer likes DH, decides to refer a friend, then finds out, "Oh no!!! That lousy Seiler that gave me $97 is going to get $5 back if I refer a friend... and it won't even come out of my pocket or affect my referral!!!"

Yeah, you're smart. I've made tons of enemies that way.

If I was saying anything in favor of DH that I didn't mean, I'd stop sending them money. I know that doesn't make sense to you, since you hate them and send them money.

I guess everyone with a sig on this forum is just a paid poster? Even if they were, at least they contribute something useful to the forum. Since that's what the forum is here for, maybe you should start doing the same.

Stick with harassing Michael & Dallas--they seem to have more patience for your non-stop anonymous BS... though they did just ask you to ID yourself so they could give you a refund and let you move to host you think is better. It's so bad here that you turned it down... big surprise. Why let getting your money back and going to a better host stop you from whining? Oh, that's right... you stay here because it's cheap. Everyone knows that DH is the only cheap host out there, so that makes a lot of sense.

I will say this: Even the $1 referral fees are nice and appreciated. Most of my referrals do not come from this forum, though.

And more people have used the $96 code than the $97 one under it. Maybe I actually helped them? Oops, I lost you again. Helping is when you post something that's actually useful to at least one person.

I'll even add that people have used the $96 code in the last few days, even though the last few days of posting has been the forum equivalent of throwing rocks at retards.

<Looks like the forum retard needs some more schooling.>

After reading your drivel, and after i stopped laughing, I came to the realization that you really don't know, do you? LOL - geeze, i really don't know if i should be laughing or crying...i usually don't laugh at "special" people, because they really can't help themselves.

<That's why no one on this forum has ever accused me of being smart. >

Well, we are in total agreement on that one :)

<I've been a customer since 2002. Are you still with me? Or has your mind already drifted off so you can start working on your next whiny post?>

2000 for me, nice to meet you mr. two years later :)

<You DO NOT need to be a customer to post in the forum, or sign up for the affiliate program. That means I'm a customer by choice. But hey, don't let reality interfere with your forum trolling. Is this the situation you saw in your empty little head that made you post this crap:>

God, dude, i really pity you, you really don't know....my guess is that you simply started copying after one of the others on this board and didn't take the time to find out about the bonus feature....poor fella :(

<I pay a customer $97 to host here, instead of keeping the $97. How selfish of me! The customer likes DH, decides to refer a friend, then finds out, "Oh no!!! That lousy Seiler that gave me $97 is going to get $5 back if I refer a friend... and it won't even come out of my pocket or affect my referral!!!"

Yeah, you're smart. I've made tons of enemies that way.

If I was saying anything in favor of DH that I didn't mean, I'd stop sending them money. I know that doesn't make sense to you, since you hate them and send them money.

I guess everyone with a sig on this forum is just a paid poster? Even if they were, at least they contribute something useful to the forum. Since that's what the forum is here for, maybe you should start doing the same.>

You really seem to have alot of anger issues, dude....just in case you didn't bother to check, you really haven't posted in here much more than I have, so if I am a troll, I must be like a super troll because I've been posting here for a good bit of time.

<Stick with harassing Michael & Dallas--they seem to have more patience for your non-stop anonymous BS... though they did just ask you to ID yourself so they could give you a refund and let you move to host you think is better. It's so bad here that you turned it down... big surprise. Why let getting your money back and going to a better host stop you from whining? Oh, that's right... you stay here because it's cheap. Everyone knows that DH is the only cheap host out there, so that makes a lot of sense.>

As i also mentioned, my little friend, DH is probably one of the better "budget hosting" plans out there.

<I will say this: Even the $1 referral fees are nice and appreciated. Most of my referrals do not come from this forum, though.

And more people have used the $96 code than the $97 one under it. Maybe I actually helped them? Oops, I lost you again. Helping is when you post something that's actually useful to at least one person.

I'll even add that people have used the $96 code in the last few days, even though the last few days of posting has been the forum equivalent of throwing rocks at retards.>

Wow, dude, you are soo incredibly helpful and cheerful; I can definitely see how soo many people are helped by your "positive" attitude :p

On a serious note, though, you may want to ask one of the real seasoned veterans of DH about the "discount bonus" because I really do feel bad for you if you have been flushing what appears to be thousands of dollars down the tube.

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

In reply to:
After reading your drivel

Good, now you know what it's like to read through drivel, instead of post it.

In reply to:
2000 for me, nice to meet you mr. two years later :)

In your other post it was, "I've been here over 3 years." I guess you could have just said, "I've been here over 5 minutes," since that could also mean 6 years.

In reply to:
God, dude, i really pity you, you really don't know....

If it's anything beyond "here's a link," it's not for me. I'd continue to recommend DH if they dropped codes & referrals.

This also proves my point that whining seems to be your only reason for being here. Your last post was to warn people that I can't be trusted because of promo codes, then your very next post is about how to get rich using promo codes. If I didn't have the promo codes, you would have posted that I don't really like DH because I'm not promoting them with a promo code.

If you're referring to the way of making $__ on every referral, even with the $97 code, no thanks. And I think you're offbase suggesting that's what I do, or anyone else here for that matter. [Note: If anyone want tips on gaming the system, PM him--not me.]

Even if people were doing that, it doesn't change the fact that the promo code is giving away the referral and saving new customers $97. And with a 97 day money-back guarantee, you lose the referral if they don't like it here and request a refund--so what exactly did you think you were protecting anyone from? Exactly... nothing.

Sneaky marketing with referral links pays better than promo codes as well, but I'm not interested in that either.

In reply to:
You really seem to have alot of anger issues, dude.

It would seem that way to you because you only read the whiny troll threads, where your posts are usually found.

Like I've said before, this is a forum for DH'ers to help each other. How exactly does the crap you and a few others post qualify as helpful?

The sad thing is that you know you'd be banned by any other host, which also means you know what you do here isn't appreciated.

In reply to:
just in case you didn't bother to check, you really haven't posted in here much more than I have, so if I am a troll, I must be like a super troll because I've been posting here for a good bit of time.

I've been here since '02 and have just over 350 posts, which until very recently, were mostly pleasant.

You didn't register on the forums until 2005 and already racked up 186 posts on a whining spree.

You've been with DH for over 6 years? So, when all was fine, you couldn't be bothered to sign up and actually contribute to the forum, but as soon as DH makes you cry, you have all the time in the world to troll?

In reply to:
As i also mentioned, my little friend, DH is probably one of the better "budget hosting" plans out there.

Apparently, they're the best because you've been here 6 years and just turned down a refund to go somewhere better.

I think they've already explained to you that they get to make their own business decisions and that you don't represent the majority.

In reply to:
Wow, dude, you are soo incredibly helpful and cheerful; I can definitely see how soo many people are helped by your "positive" attitude :p

Now I just need to figure out which means more, a large number of people choosing my promo code out of the many here, or thanking me for helping them... or one post from someone that does nothing but whine here. Hmm... I'll have to think about that one.

You don't seem completely braindead, so I'm not sure why you don't contribute more to the forums than whining. If you've really been here 6 years, I'd think that you'd have the experience to actually offer people help that have made the same choice to host here that you did.

Apparently, they're the best because you've been here 6 years and just turned down a refund to go somewhere better.

I thought they moved away about 18 months ago?

How about giving us an informative l&l experience report?

And spill the rest of the beans on the bonus thing.

--Dreamhost customer over 5 minutes.

==

You are welcome to a refund.-Michael;Comparing 'DH of today' with 'DH of old' does not serve much purpose.-Dallas

In reply to:
Can Maggie and Ken ever get back together again after Kens affair with Petunia?

Well, Maggie loves flowers but Ken LOVES flowers... will it cause jealousy or a deeper connection?

Check out Gordaen's Knowledge, the blog, and the MR2 page.

In reply to:
I missed most of the plot but I think I have the gist!

Now that you have the gist, do you have any special plans for it? If not, maybe I could use it!

--rlparker

<Good, now you know what it's like to read through drivel, instead of post it. >

well at least that's one thing we have in common :)

<In your other post it was, "I've been here over 3 years." I guess you could have just said, "I've been here over 5 minutes," since that could also mean 6 years.>

I was actually speaking of the message board when i made that comment...i have been on this message board for a little over 3 years...i initially read and posted anonymously, than someone suggested i create a profile, so i did and have been posting under "IAmAtMyWitsEnd" ever since....btw, that nick is actually not DH related....that is simply what a couple of my colleagues tell me that i remark around the office quite a bit ;)

<If it's anything beyond "here's a link," it's not for me. I'd continue to recommend DH if they dropped codes & referrals.>

and that is where we are different...i don't believe in giving props to a webhosting provider <period>, you are only setting yourself up for anguish...while you may have lucked out to date, it is still setting yourself up for trouble. DH has DOCUMENTED issues right now and if you are a website designer especially, you should NEVER recommend a particular webhost....it's just bad business....and the reason why some of us "whiners" are soo up in arms is that while you may be managing a handful of clients, my team has over 400 (only 20 with DH) and we have been on the wrong end of several of these downtime issues....but, I don't really care much about it anymore because only our "budget" clients are still assigned to DH...the only reason why i come in here to preach a "counterpoint" is that I want to show possible new DH clients that all is not as rosy as some will have you believe. Just as it is your right to promote and make things rosy about DH....

<This also proves my point that whining seems to be your only reason for being here. Your last post was to warn people that I can't be trusted because of promo codes, then your very next post is about how to get rich using promo codes. If I didn't have the promo codes, you would have posted that I don't really like DH because I'm not promoting them with a promo code.>

Actually that is incorrect....I respect those that do not get into the whole "promo code" thing...you know where those folks are coming from...and I really believe that is bad business in general.

<If you're referring to the way of making $__ on every referral, even with the $97 code, no thanks. And I think you're offbase suggesting that's what I do, or anyone else here for that matter. [Note: If anyone want tips on gaming the system, PM him--not me.]>

that may be the case with you, but, it is not "always" the case.....

<Even if people were doing that, it doesn't change the fact that the promo code is giving away the referral and saving new customers $97. And with a 97 day money-back guarantee, you lose the referral if they don't like it here and request a refund--so what exactly did you think you were protecting anyone from? Exactly... nothing.>

ahh, no, i am protecting peeps from "rosy coloured glasses" that some of you seem to have permanently affixed to their aural cavities.

<Sneaky marketing with referral links pays better than promo codes as well, but I'm not interested in that either.>

this further demonstrates my point, don't think for a second that i am the only peep questioning these motives and it is with that doubt that casts doubt over your overall comments.

<It would seem that way to you because you only read the whiny troll threads, where your posts are usually found.>

ironically, it is where we met...above all else, this is where i come to vent, because as you know it is impossible to speak to anyone via the telephone....

<Like I've said before, this is a forum for DH'ers to help each other. How exactly does the crap you and a few others post qualify as helpful?>

How does your promo sig "help" anyone? and how come you simply write off anyone who has not had such a rosy experience with DH? My "help" is injecting some "reality" into an otherwise promo laden forum

<The sad thing is that you know you'd be banned by any other host, which also means you know what you do here isn't appreciated.>

Why would i be banned? for speaking my mind? for injecting some reality in here? banned for staying with a budget host through thick and thin? banned for wanting DH to return to quality?

<I've been here since '02 and have just over 350 posts, which until very recently, were mostly pleasant.>

I am sorry to hear that I have rained on your parade of goodwill...if only i was in the same place as you are from your perspective...when this all started back in 05, i lost 4 top end clients because of mailserver, and overall downtime issues which were not being reflected in the DH reports...this cost me thousands of dollars. Also, I wonder what "promo sig" you were using when you were "sooo pleasant"?? alot easier to attract bees to honey isnt it?

<You didn't register on the forums until 2005 and already racked up 186 posts on a whining spree.>

You know i only went on the attack with you, after you attacked me....

<You've been with DH for over 6 years? So, when all was fine, you couldn't be bothered to sign up and actually contribute to the forum, but as soon as DH makes you cry, you have all the time in the world to troll?>

at the time i originally signed up for DH, i was way too busy with new clients and as i stated, i did make a post here and there anonymously and i did read alot of the posts on here...i am not a troll...i want DH to get better period...

<Apparently, they're the best because you've been here 6 years and just turned down a refund to go somewhere better.>

Told you, i am satisfied with DH as a "Budget" host....i just would never place a top tier client on their service until they get things straightened out.

<I think they've already explained to you that they get to make their own business decisions and that you don't represent the majority.

They do get to make their own business decisions, I just want them to be the best that they can be...actually i am in the minority only in the fact that i have decided to stick it out with DH....top tier designers simply quietly move things over to more stable environments like a rackspace and you wouldnt even know it...i like the way DH is and I hope they can return to a more stable environment someday....

<Now I just need to figure out which means more, a large number of people choosing my promo code out of the many here, or thanking me for helping them... or one post from someone that does nothing but whine here. Hmm... I'll have to think about that one.>

Yet you seem to go out of your way to battle me about this.....i have documented issues with DH stretching back to 05 - you have not....that is why we will see things differently..

<You don't seem completely braindead, so I'm not sure why you don't contribute more to the forums than whining. If you've really been here 6 years, I'd think that you'd have the experience to actually offer people help that have made the same choice to host here that you did.>

Wow, do i taste a very miniscule compliment in your oft venomous words? :)

Truth is seiler, guys like you (ironically) are what keeps me sending money to DH every month....some peeps just need to vent and I think DH realizes this especially when they have had particular difficult issues. Unlike most "whiners" i actually read and listen to every word that is said to me in here - i dont always agree, but that is simply life....btw, i hope you took my advice about some of those "other things" - i would change the domain name - stay under the radar if you really dont want to amend my other suggestions....if you keep it that way though, you will catch heat at sometime....those folks use the MarkMonitor service and it is only a matter of time before you get a letter - TBH, i would dump it or put it in a "private" reg.

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

In reply to:
if you are a website designer especially, you should NEVER recommend a particular webhost....it's just bad business....

You prefer inaction to action that may or may not be right? What is the reason for not recommending a host? If people with experience don't make recommendations, then people are left to Google for pages that have "unbiased reviews" of different hosting companies. I think web designers are in a great position to make recommendations, especially ones who make use of a variety of services offered by a particular host (so they can give advice like "Use them for non-dynamic pages and they're great, but if you plan on using them for MySQL-heavy sites, you'll be out of luck").

Would you recommend against a host (but never for one)?

Check out Gordaen's Knowledge, the blog, and the MR2 page.

<You prefer inaction to action that may or may not be right? What is the reason for not recommending a host?>

In the business of web design, wearing ones "badge" on their shoulder is poor business....I liken it to discussing politics and religion with clients, you just don't do it...the truly top-tier webhosts out there are held very close and they don't offer promo codes "bribes" to sign up with them....they simply provide stellar uptimes and fantastic customer support.

<If people with experience don't make recommendations, then people are left to Google for pages that have "unbiased reviews" of different hosting companies.>

First off, I read that little DH diatribe and laughed my way through the whole thing. I have a newsflash for you Ian, JD Power and Associates/Consumer Guide/fill in the blank, ALL give high ratings to your MR2 - do you think their reviews are completely unbiased? Consumer reports is the only true barometer in this world of resource guides..If DH themselves were soo naive to think that everything would be based on merit, than they are much further behind in a business sense than I previously gave them credit for. Further, what a bunch of hypocrits! Slamming those companies for asking for money for reviews, yet pimping themselves out to any two bit webdesigner for "promo referrals" - what a hypocrisy!

<I think web designers are in a great position to make recommendations, especially ones who make use of a variety of services offered by a particular host (so they can give advice like "Use them for non-dynamic pages and they're great, but if you plan on using them for MySQL-heavy sites, you'll be out of luck").>

This I would agree with you....pointing out various services and their uptimes would be something of value...I prefer epinions for more end-user type reviews.

<Would you recommend against a host (but never for one)?>

In a way, your statement holds true...see, Ian, to really excel at webdesign and with the search engines...there are certain "server" methods that need employed...I will not get into particulars, but, the more peeps joining your "host", the less likely you will reach highs with certain targeted keyword phrases...that is why often the only way to discover a high-end webhost is by running whois searches on their domains and finding out who they are using, not by clicking on a "bribe code" (promo) - we usually hold these hosts close to our hearts and don't speak of them freely, while it is easier to point out faults and allow adults to make their own decisions. Maybe it's just my surroundings, but in our fast paced environments, peeps generally like to get right to the crux and skip all of the "promotional garbage" - speaking of that:

"Use code "GORDAEN" to save $45 on any one or two year plan or $10 per level of monthly plan (i.e. L1 = $10 off, L4 = $40 off)."

This is just me, but, I would have a hard time taking your comments seriously If I were looking for a webhost - it is a shame though, because after reading a good bit of your sites, I come to realize that we are on the same page with regards to your "articles" - although, I feel that DP is a deterrent - it at least deters that particular individual from future incidences. Anyways, good luck to you :)

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

When I first came to Dreamhost, I recommended them to my clients and family members all the time, because I thought they were the best deal around and offered quality, reliability, and customer service for a decent price. Not the cheapest, but the combo was great.

Now I have some fairly large clients who are faced with moving because of the service issues. Moving large sites is not easy. To an extent, having them find their own web hosts distances the designer from liability if the host goes down (which we typically can't do anything about, but we get blamed for anyway).

For me, I deal a lot with small businesses who are computer illiterate. So I usually take care of their hosting/email/what have you. As such, when DH goes down, I'M RESPONSIBLE.

================================
Angela Gann
CrimsonDryad Web Design Services
Web Design, Custom Software Development
http://www.crimsondryad.com

In reply to:
I liken it to discussing politics and religion with clients, you just don't do it

And if your clients are trying to decide what political party is right for them, you wouldn't give them any suggestions?

In reply to:
they simply provide stellar uptimes and fantastic customer support.

If only you could suggest one of these hosts... I've tried plenty and, in general, have found most were great a few years ago and now many are going down-hill. I ended up at DH as a "value for the money" deal. Despite the recent problems, I've been pleased with the service.

In reply to:
I have a newsflash for you Ian, JD Power and Associates/Consumer Guide/fill in the blank, ALL give high ratings to your MR2 - do you think their reviews are completely unbiased? Consumer reports is the only true barometer in this world of resource guides..I

Very few people in the world, including consumers, are not biased. If you get enough people to review something, then, sure, you find a nice "average" opinion, but different people are looking for different things. Someone who is looking for a luxury vehicle is not going to find my MR2 as adequate, and would thus be less likely to offer a fair opinion. The point being that someone who is in the position of knowing/using a particular product (such as a webhost) is going to have a far more beneficial opinion than most other people. If those who use various webhosts regularly aren't willing to recommend anyone, then everybody is left to guess what is good based on completely biased (as opposed to partially) sites.

As far as the MR2, I am biased too ;) Mine hasn't had any real problems and I know someone who drag races ~50 times a year on an original engine that has never been opened despite having over 200K miles on it. Personally, I'd sooner trust his opinion than the average of 5 people with minimal knowledge.

Of course, when it came to me buying a car, I didn't read any of the sources you listed. I decided what features I wanted and my price range and started looking. Then I narrowed it down. Eventually, I went to test drives before deciding on exactly what I wanted. With webhosting, it's not easy to "test drive" a full site and then change if it doesn't work out. It can be very expensive for a business to prepare for server changes and having a couple of good recommendations can alleviate some of that.

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This is just me, but, I would have a hard time taking your comments seriously If I were looking for a webhost

In what regard? I don't offer the promo code in conjunction with any "DH is great, everyone should use them" messages. In fact, I avoid using my code on this board and I have not yet reviewed DH on my site (I prefer to wait 6-12 months before doing so). I waited 1 month after signing up for DH before putting the promo code on my site, because I believed it a good idea to get my feet wet before recommending a lake for swimming. When I do a review of DH, I'm sure it will be along the lines of "good value for budget-minded individuals, probably not a good buy for businesses."

As far as the DP, a good prison can prevent further crimes just as the DP can. Quoting the rare instances where an escaped convict has committed additional crimes shows only that the prison failed not the principle (and that issue would have to be dealt with anyway for all the people who would be at the prison for non-death sentences). The two biggest problems with the death penalty are 1) cost, 2) "oops, made a mistake, uhhh... sorry about that." If we could drop the costs and make specific legislation for instances where there is no doubt (video footage, X number of credible witnesses, etc.), I'd have to reconsider my opinion as I am not certain where my morals stand on the issue.

I really do need to create some new articles, but I've mostly been throwing thoughts into my blog and not developing them. Well, and preparing a bunch of redesign stuff.

Thanks for reading the site and preparing a well thought-out perspective.

Check out Gordaen's Knowledge, the blog, and the MR2 page.

<And if your clients are trying to decide what political party is right for them, you wouldn't give them any suggestions?>

I really couldn't, Ian, simply because if I would wear that badge, I would inherently offend nearly half of my business prospects....USA is deeply divided with bi-partisanship at the writing of this; plus, tbh, I am not sure i fall into either of the major parties, my politics ironically fall into line with alot of what you stated pertaining to the biggies: abortion and DP...just as you with the first one, i just don't see an iron clad rule with things....message truncated

IAmAtMyWitsEnd

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and that is where we are different...i don't believe in giving props to a webhosting provider <period>

Word-of-mouth isn't exactly a new form of advertising for any type of business.

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DH has DOCUMENTED issues right now

I get that you and others have had problems here. A lot of people have, including me. Same can be said for any host, including the expensive ones.

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managing a handful of clients, my team has over 400 (only 20 with DH) and we have been on the wrong end of several of these downtime issues...

Unless 395 clients are non-paying friends/family, I don't see why you even need an account here if it's so bad.

It's odd that it's okay for you to take money from people and put them here, but you have a problem with promo codes?

Have you linked all 20 of your clients to your posts here, or is honesty only important when it comes to promo codes?

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the only reason why i come in here to preach a "counterpoint" is that I want to show possible new DH clients that all is not as rosy as some will have you believe. Just as it is your right to promote and make things rosy about DH...

I still don't see how harassing the owners and whining about whatever passes for making a counter-point.

A lot of people come here and post their problems in ways that never get attacked by anyone. No one calls them whiners, either.

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Actually that is incorrect....I respect those that do not get into the whole "promo code" thing...you know where those folks are coming from...

Do you? How do you know they're not top-secret undercover DH employees? PM spammers? Maybe the ones without promo codes here are making a killing from them every day with PPC. Or what about people that don't have promo codes, but have a link to their blog/site... which might have a promo code on it?

What exactly is it about your posts that you think has earned you any credibility? Lack of promo codes?

At some point, the post has to matter more than the sig beneath it... which is why I questioned you on contributing instead of whining.

(By the way... when the promo codes were making people here cry, I was fine with the idea of banning sigs completely, to avoid there being any reason to post other than adding to the discussion.)

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...and I really believe that is bad business in general.

That's nothing more than a reason for you to not use them.

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<If you're referring to the way of making $__ on every referral, even with the $97 code...>

that may be the case with you, but, it is not "always" the case.....

Some people rape farm animals, but I don't remember telling anyone to skip over your posts just because I don't know for a fact that you haven't done it.

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ahh, no, i am protecting peeps from "rosy coloured glasses" that some of you seem to have permanently affixed to their aural cavities.

Whining isn't protecting. Include this with every post and see how seriously people take you: ".... By the way, I've been here 6 years and have no intention of leaving."

If someone signs up, with or without a code, and hates it--they get their money back. If a code was used, the person loses their referral. Okay, no difference there either way.

If they sign up and decide to stay based on their own 97 day evaluation, there is no benefit to not using a code. They save $97 on something they decide they want, regardless of what they read here.

Like I said before, I've only seen one refund--and that was before all of the recent problems.

I still haven't seen you discredit any posts based on their content. The only ammo you seem to have is, "He can't be right! He has a promo code in his sig!"

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above all else, this is where i come to vent, because as you know it is impossible to speak to anyone via the telephone....

Learn how to complain faster and see what you can squeeze in on a call-back. ;) Or take lessons from this guy.

I never even said people shouldn't vent here. Just that some people need to actually contribute something once in a while, rather than do nothing but vent/whine.

I'd rather read 10 whiny posts from someone with 90 useful posts than read 1 whiny post from a person whose post count is 2.

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<Like I've said before, this is a forum for DH'ers to help each other. How exactly does the crap you and a few others post qualify as helpful?>

How does your promo sig "help" anyone? and how come you simply write off anyone who has not had such a rosy experience with DH? My "help" is injecting some "reality" into an otherwise promo laden forum

Ask the people that have saved $97 if they found my sig helpful. Some people even read the posts (that's the part above the sig) and find those useful, too. Besides, most of the posts I reply to are from people that already host here and have a question or problem.

I don't dismiss anyone with problems. I wouldn't mind a whole section for complaints. It would clean the trash out of the other forums. If a post gets a harsh reply from me, it's generally not the content, but the way it's presented.

Someone asking for help via a tantrum is like using ebonics during a job interview. You either want to be taken seriously or you don't.

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<The sad thing is that you know you'd be banned by any other host...>

Why would i be banned? for speaking my mind? for injecting some reality in here? banned for staying with a budget host through thick and thin? banned for wanting DH to return to quality?

Sarcastic, but I'd actually accept it as a correct answer. Maybe throw in extra points for the hippy treehugger cracks in other threads.

Many/most, if not all hosts, see any site they own as an advertisement that they're paying for. I can't think of a single host that is as lenient as DH in this area.

DH has their problems, but the main reason there are so many complaints here is because they don't get deleted.

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I am sorry to hear that I have rained on your parade of goodwill...if only i was in the same place as you are from your perspective...

I'd still help the happy ones, even if my server was having problems. That's what I mean when I say that's what the forum is for.

Even this guy seems to know that this forum isn't the best place to whine about DH.

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and overall downtime issues which were not being reflected in the DH reports...this cost me thousands of dollars.

I still don't buy it when people claim a single shared hosting account costs them a lot of income. Lack of redundancy and poor decision-making, maybe--but not the downtime of a single shared hosting account.

Even if it was the case, it would have put me off on shared hosting--not just DH.

It's like when people think the .snapshot directory is a reason to not keep their own backups.

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Also, I wonder what "promo sig" you were using when you were "sooo pleasant"?? alot easier to attract bees to honey isnt it?

I thinking giving someone $97 passes for "honey."

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You know i only went on the attack with you, after you attacked me....

Silly me. I mistook your "DH Puppet" post, which contained absolutely nothing relevant to the thread, as an attack.

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at the time i originally signed up for DH, i was way too busy with new clients and as i stated, i did make a post here and there anonymously and i did read alot of the posts on here...i am not a troll...i want DH to get better period...

This is one of my biggest problems with the whiny posts and why they're the ones that need counter-balancing, rather than the praise posts.

When things are good, everyone's too busy to help out other forum members or praise DH. But as soon as something goes wrong, everyone has time to bash/complain/whine/etc... about DH and annoy the posters that actually use the forum for what it's for. THAT is what throws things out of balance--not helpful posts, with or without promo codes in the sigs.

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Told you, i am satisfied with DH as a "Budget" host....i just would never place a top tier client on their service until they get things straightened out.

Unless we have different definitions of 'top tier client' -- I can't picture putting them here either--but I expand that to include any shared hosting plan.

If something is mission-critical, why put it at the mercy of hundreds of other users? Sure, your own dedicated server technically becomes a shared environment for your clients, but you get to select the people that are sharing it. If you're building sites for businesses, not many warez/porn/mp3/hack sites are going to end up on your hard drives.

It's simple. You ask yourself, "How much money will this make me?" Then you ask, "How much am I willing to spend to secure this income?" If you answer the second question with "$8/month," then I hope the answer to the first question wasn't much more than $8/month.

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They do get to make their own business decisions, I just want them to be the best that they can be...

Do you really think your approach to that is taken seriously at all? Your approach with the owners got you a refund offer. I think when someone is willing to pay you to leave, it's their way of saying you need a new approach.

Got suggestions? Use the suggestion panel. I do. Word them in a way that will get other users' support & votes. I've even put in suggestions that were pretty much thrown right into the mix, without needing votes.

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actually i am in the minority only in the fact that i have decided to stick it out with DH....top tier designers simply quietly move things over to more stable environments like a rackspace and you wouldnt even know it...

Who do you think made the right move? Them for moving to a place you'd rather be, or you for staying at a place they wouldn't want to be?

If you stay to use the service for whatever it's worth to you, that's fine. DH not being Rackspace isn't a reason to complain, though.

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Yet you seem to go out of your way to battle me about this.....i have documented issues with DH stretching back to 05 - you have not....that is why we will see things differently..

I can turn it around and say that same thing. I don't have a problem with DH and you can't accept it, so you blame everything on promo codes.

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those folks use the MarkMonitor service and it is only a matter of time before you get a letter

I have a bunch of domain names that contain DH. If they wanted them I'd happily hand them over.

I think there was a whole thread on this topic, or at least a thread that went off-course and became this topic. They don't seem to go after the name unless it violates their wordmark by competing against them.

Sites that promote DH and state the relationship, if any, aren't hurting DH. Same goes for the other extreme, the "DH Sucks" sites. On the other hand, it would be a bad idea to try competing by running a hosting business from a domain like BetterThanDreamhost.com. Or possibly even using something like that to promote a competitor--not sure where the line gets drawn on that one.

DH doesn't have Wal-Mart money, so until I see Wal-Mart eliminate the "Wal-mart Sucks" sites, I doubt that even the ones that use DH in a negative way have much to worry about.

Besides, they don't even delete the trash-talking here, so I doubt they put much effort into shutting people up on other domains.

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