Spam filter not working

Spam filter not working

Posted by: sesser
Posted on: 2005-03-23 07:39:00

That title is a little misleading. Mail is being filtered and caught just fine. Problem is when I go to look at my 'Junk Mail' folder at webmail2. I can't get valid emails out of purgatory... in fact, none of the actions listed actually remove/deliver mail. I get the following error when I try to 'Move to INBOX'

Error: Could not open file /usr/local/junkmail/2005-03-22/spam-86656c05b18b92346b6edec88d855583-20050321-080157-08117-14.bsmtp

The message is not moved.

What gives?

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: marks
Posted on: 2005-03-23 07:44:00

I am seeing this also. I sent a support request an hour or so ago. No response yet.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: rassi
Posted on: 2005-03-23 09:19:00

Ditto here. Also getting a lot of things that used to be whitelisted caught in the junk filter.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-23 10:36:00

Likewise. My support request went in just short of 3 hours ago; haven't heard anything since then.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: brunning
Posted on: 2005-03-23 12:35:00

yep. same here.

i'm staring at a folder full of junk email (some 300 messages of which i know at least 30 are "good") and when i select some and select "move to inbox" and hit submit, i get:

Error: Could not open file /usr/local/junkmail/2005-03-22/spam-f265a214c0691ded33ec132a6d09ab74-20050315-162639-21514-03.bsmtp

i put in a request for support 5+ hours ago, still no response, but it sounds like they must know about the issue now.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-23 15:36:00

Received this from DH Support within the past hour:

In reply to:

Unfortunately, due to a bug in the junk mail processing software, some emails weren't correctly copied to your inbox, but were at the same time deleted from your junk mail list. This means that those emails are permanently gone from the system.

We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused - the bug has been fixed and this will not happen again.


Not happy.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: sesser
Posted on: 2005-03-23 15:59:00

Hmmm, well, I only have 10 listed so it's not a huge deal...and the ones that were valid emails weren't important. BUT if they have been deleted from the system, why are they still showing up in the Junk Mail folder? Stored in a MySQL table?

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-23 16:04:00

Haven't a clue...although I share your curiosity.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-24 01:35:00

Wow. You might want to do as I have and set things up so that all mail going to the JF it forwarded to o a second non-JFed mailbox as backup.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-24 05:46:00

I wonder, though, if that would have helped in this instance -- it sounds as though the mail was deleted before fully registering, in which case forwarding all JF mail to another mailbox wouldn't do any good.

It is rather perturbing, in any case, that DH didn't have a better recovery plan in place for this situation. In the however-many-years-its-been that I've hosted with them, this is the first time I've really, truly been an Unhappy Customer.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: brunning
Posted on: 2005-03-24 06:58:00

agreed. the lack of backup (and taking such a beta-quality system out of beta) was a very poor decision here. frustrating to stare at that list of "spam", many of which i know are good and/or whitelisted, including what appear to be customer orders and work-related stuff.

this, paired with problems from last week and earlier this week which caused messages to hang up in spam filter for up to a week make me not happy at all.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: iiDOTcom
Posted on: 2005-03-24 07:15:00

thinkum posted this from DH Support: "Unfortunately, due to a bug in the junk mail processing software, some emails weren't correctly copied to your inbox, but were at the same time deleted from your junk mail list. This means that those emails are permanently gone from the system."

One of the reasons that I like DreamHost is because of the ~/.snapshot directory, which contains backups of your data. For example, here are the directories in mine:

~/.snapshot> ls
hourly.0 hourly.1 nightly.0 nightly.1 weekly.0 weekly.1

I recommend that you look in these directories and see if you can find your lost messages.

If, in fact, those messages have been lost, I recommend that you switch your MX (Mail eXchange) records pronto to a better mail service provider.

Hope this helps you recover your lost messages!
Nancy



Infinite Ink ~ http://www.ii.com
Deflexion & Reflexion ~ http://deflexion.com

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-24 12:06:00

Thanks for the .snapshot tip -- I'll give that a shot. :-)

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-24 12:36:00

Okay, I'm curious, now -- how do you get all your JF mail to forward to another mailbox?

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-24 12:38:00

Nope, no joy there. (I can get to the files in the .snapshot directories, but they don't include the messages that JF ate.)

Somewhat mollified to see that DH has now put out an Announcement message on this issue, and there is some hint that they might be hunting around in the dead letter office:

In reply to:

We're still doing analysis on the messages from the 22nd to identify messages that were lost. It's slow going due the high number.


In the meantime, junk mail appears to be getting backed up in the queues again, as my spam directory has had no new messages added so far today (yeah, like THAT would happen <grin>). Seriously considering alternatives to DH's spam filtration, at this point...



Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: iiDOTcom
Posted on: 2005-03-24 22:07:00

Re: "Seriously considering alternatives to DH's spam filtration, at this point..."

I long ago decided that I needed to use two providers, one for mail hosting and one for web hosting, and that is the main inspiration for my IMAP IMAP Service Providers page, which I've been researching for a few years now. After all these years I have hundreds of IMAP providers listed and only 5 that I recommend. It is very hard to find a good mail service provider and AFAICT there is no web hosting provider that is also a great mail hosting provider.

Good luck with your mail!
Nancy

Infinite Ink ~ http://www.ii.com
Deflexion & Reflexion ~ http://deflexion.com

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: jennym
Posted on: 2005-03-24 23:13:00

Does anyone know if this issue is still going on today (March 24th)? I just tried to move two junked messages to my inbox, and it gives that same error. I logged in again from a different browser and the messages are still listed in the spam box, so maybe they haven't completely disappeared...?

(Ironically, these emails are from my previous host, from whom I just switched to DH...)

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-25 05:59:00

Are these messages that were received on March 22nd? If so, then I would expect to get continued error messages, since the content of those emails has not (to my knowledge) been recovered.

If these are messages that just came in on the 24th, then I'd report that to DH on a new support request, to let them know that the bug they thought they'd fixed, hasn't been.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: HolyRoller
Posted on: 2005-03-25 16:20:00

I am seeing messages that were sent a while ago that I never got. 99% of them are evil spam but two are good. However, I am still getting the above mentioned error message.

I think as they go through and fwd the emails, they will be sending dead email (name is there but nobody's home).

I have had so little problems with DH that (almost) any mistake they do is okay by me since that it is one out of X amount of non-mistakes.

I also see it this way: if their system caught all that spam, so much so that it cracked the system, then it is a damn good program!! I am willing to be a guinea pig during this. Email is recoverable. Just have the persons who sent it to you send it again.

HR (aka Paula O.)

writer me http://paulaoffutt.com
crip me http://holyroller.org
SD me http://servicedawgs.org
radio me http://kg4vpy.com

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: thinkum
Posted on: 2005-03-25 16:42:00

In reply to:

I am willing to be a guinea pig during this. Email is recoverable. Just have the persons who sent it to you send it again.


Seeing a message header when its content has been lost is one thing; that lets me notify the sender of the problem. But when the JF gets backed up, I don't have any way of even knowing that I'm missing a critical message.

And while I would normally agree with you about not getting too worked up over the situation, I'm currently in the midst of planning a wedding, meaning that I'm receiving a fair number of messages from vendors and guests with unfamiliar email addresses -- not being able to promptly and reliably receive their messages is crippling.

(Having said all that, I don't have any interest in needlessly badmouthing DH or their services; I've been a customer for almost five years, have been extremely satisfied for the vast majority of that time, and continue to recommend them. This has just not been a good month for them, customer-relations-wise, and the timing is particularly bad.)

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: jennym
Posted on: 2005-03-25 20:06:00

Yes, I think they were, unfortunately. I can't see them any longer in the spam filter and they never made it to my inbox.

And it's not as simple as asking the sender to re-send them. These were replies to a support issue I raised with the hosting company I'm no longer with, and no way to retrieve them.

Any news on whether DH has been able to find lost messages?

I just tried to send to the inbox a message received today, and I STILL have the error!! If I didn't get so many junk messages, I'd seriously consider taking it off...Edited by jennym on 03/25/05 08:09 PM (server time).

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: sesser
Posted on: 2005-03-26 21:56:00

It appears that the bug has cropped up once again. I have 38 Junk Mails waiting for action, but nothing seems to work... and now I'm getting a fsockopen() errors. To top things off, my whitelist was completely erased and all my settings (for the Spam filter) were reset. Now, I'm a big DH fan (I've been hosting with them, off and on, since 98), but I must say, this is a bit on the annoying side.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-29 11:33:00

> it sounds as though the mail was deleted before fully registering,

I think the mail was fully registered at quaratine (and hence would be also in the backup malbox) just that mail went missing only upon the Move to Mailbox. Which frankly doesn't surprise, given JF is carrying out this move by the shockingly manky method of forwarding the message to INBOX, instead of using e.g. a fail-safe IMAP move.

> It is rather perturbing, in any case, that DH didn't have a better
> recovery plan in place for this situation. In the however-many-
> years-its-been that I've hosted with them, this is the first time
> I've really, truly been an Unhappy Customer.

I think the JF is a special case. IMO Nate (the guy implementing the JF) has an impossible task - the JF design condemns it to being a junk junk filter.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-29 11:39:00

> frustrating to stare at that list of "spam", many of which
> i know are good and/or whitelisted, including what appear
> to be customer orders and work-related stuff

Your quarantine list is that readable? Luckly you! ;)

Here, every From: is wrong, most Dates are wrong, many subjects are cut short and quite a few have decode failure. Added to which JF prevents you reading any quarantined message itself.

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-29 11:41:00

> One of the reasons that I like DreamHost is
> because of the ~/.snapshot directory, which
> contains backups of your data.

One of the reason I like DH is the honesty of Support - in this cas, 'fessing that JF quaranting is excluded from backups :( :(

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-29 11:43:00

> Email is recoverable. Just have the persons who sent it to you send it again.

Quite how one can find out who sent you lost mail, I would love to know!


Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: chrisjj
Posted on: 2005-03-29 11:48:00

> how do you get all your JF mail to forward to another mailbox?

I get the incoming address to forward to the JFed mailbox and to a second, non-JFed, mailbox.

But since the crazy design of the JF means that it doesn't work on mail whose arrival at DH was at a non-JFed domain, to "forward to the JFed mailbox" I have to forward out of DH and back in again. www.clara.net provide a free serice that does this (a free-trial mailbox, set to forward).

Re: Spam filter not working

Posted by: nate
Posted on: 2005-03-30 00:14:00

Just wanted to apologize for all the weirdness last week. I wrote this in my announcement about the problem, but a lot of these issues are difficult to ferret out when testing. Things can work well when filtering a few messages per minute and behave somewhat differently when filtering a few per second.

Dealing with a very broad-based, network-level email filter is always a delicate thing. That being said, the problems last week were really dumb and were my fault.

In reply to:

I think the mail was fully registered at quaratine (and hence would be also in the backup malbox) just that mail went missing only upon the Move to Mailbox. Which frankly doesn't surprise, given JF is carrying out this move by the shockingly manky method of forwarding the message to INBOX, instead of using e.g. a fail-safe IMAP move.


Well, that's not really how it works. The "Junk Folder" itself is not a real folder, it's not stored on your mail machine, and doesn't speak IMAP. It would be a billion times easier for me on the Webmail side of things if it were. However, storing the Junk along with all your other mail on our mail servers defeats a lot of the purpose of the filter: to keep this crap off our servers in the first place.

The mail is (eventually) stored as a file on a network file server (which does have backups, just like user storage). The headers are scanned and info is put in a database: that's what you're viewing when you click on the "Junk Folder". It's just info from a database. For obvious reasons, the body of the message is not stored in the db.

The problems from last week stemmed from a bug in the process that takes mail the filter has determined is spam and scans the headers for the database. It was a stupid bug that only exhibited under a very heavy load. It's fixed now.

Again, apologies all around. I'm always doing everything I can to make sure this stuff both keeps spam out of your Inbox and doesn't muck up your "real" mail.


nate.

Tags: mail folderjunk mailspam filterwebmail2junkmailusrinboxlocal