Its called synergy, that means we all win not all lose

Just thought I'd see what you guys n gals think about my latest promotion to get DreamHost referrals? (I got 3 in the past 5 minutes already)

A. Killer title
B. Twisty story that is actually honest so doesn't come across like marketing.
C. Using my nice but sometime hated referall linking skills.
D. Making something out of nothing to benefit all parties involved..

1. the customer who will get a great service
2. the company gets a good customer for having a great product. And some of the more negative publicity out there gets pushed down and away from the public who instead see my article which loooks bad but isn't.
3. I get the joy of knowing I'm helping a good company get a good customer, and it makes me feel good to spell out the "ideal" way of handling life and especially business, in which all parties involved benefit. No, some people are just negative thinkers, stuck in negative loops of thought, and thats why there is really a limit to their success in life, and of course they then take it out on evryone else because it makes them feel a little better. Me? Homey don't play that.

I am of course referring to the fact that ONCE AGAIN I have banned from the wiki by the same person for silly nonsensical ego-bs. If they wouldn't allow someone to hurt their business like that I wonder where they would be? If I ouldn't have been repeatedly harassed and threatened off the wiki, I would never have started a blog, and those 10K visitors I get a day to my blog would all be at the wiki. Real f'n smart. And I waited a couple months to let things cool down, thinking that those guys had learned to look at situations in truthfulness and could just let me contribute to the wiki. WRONG. This time I got banned for a month after not posting in more than 2 months... and get this.. I got banned for posting a link to an article that I was asking a question about... ON A TALK PAGE! Oh the humility! A talk page nooooo! haha I love it! I mean its like, have any of you ever heard of something so incredibly petty? I love it!

DreamHost Employees shocked visitors today!

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

Is it legit to completely copy dreamhost's "Employee Owned" page while replacing their signup link with your own?

In reply to:
And some of the more negative publicity out there gets pushed down and away from the public who instead see my article which loooks bad but isn't.

You mean:
1. The post from a prospective customer asking what support was like with the multiple positive responses?
2. The question about whether you could run teamspeak/ventrilo under dreamhost PS where the answer was "yes"?
3. The post from the person wanting to run a warez site at dreamhost who was notified that such a site would be against the dreamhost terms of service?
4. The post from someone wondering about the legal technicalities of creating a celebrity fansite?
5. The post wondering how much ffmpeg use would be ok at dreamhost?
6. The question from a user about whether they could run Karrigel where the answer was "yes"?
7. The question about how to "get around" the 200 email an hour limit for an active forum.
8. The post about how some *other* webhost was kicking users off for overly tight cpu restrictions and how maybe dreamhost would be better?

I find it odd and a bit disingenuous to suggest that you were trying to improve the tone of the forums at a time when it's been pretty clear of complaints for a record number of consecutive constructive posts.

meh ... more SEO/spammish prattle, see previous response in the other thread.

In reply to:
I am of course referring to the fact that ONCE AGAIN I have banned from the wiki by the same person for silly nonsensical ego-bs.

Well, you are *1/3* accurate on that one; you did get banned, but it was *not* the same person that banned you this second time and you were banned for repeating behavior that got you banned (for a shorter period) the first time. None of what you describe as "silly nonsensical ego-bs" was involved at all, and you were banned by the same sysop that last "re-added" one of your links that had been questioned and removed.

Pay attention, read your Wiki talk page, and don't lie. Obfuscate, posture, position, spam, and promote to what ever degree you can get away with it wherever you can (some of us have grown to expect that from you), but do try to get your facts straight.

In reply to:
This time I got banned for a month after not posting in more than 2 months... and get this.. I got banned for posting a link to an article that I was asking a question about... ON A TALK PAGE! Oh the humility! A talk page nooooo! haha I love it! I mean its like, have any of you ever heard of something so incredibly petty? I love it![

It's good that you can find entertainment value in making a fool of yourself. It's also good that DH Wiki users can:

1) Read your whole history on the wiki (if they are willing to wade through the history of your self-promotional linking, and prior banning)

2) Take a break from having to deal with your self-serving edits on the DreamHost wiki for at least the next few days.

This is exactly this kind of "promotion" that leaves a foul taste in the mouth of many whenever SEO, or promotion, comes up for discussion. Yeah, I know you believe, as you have said previously, that "controversy" is "promotional", but at this point with you it has just become a nuisance.

--rlparker

I was just wondering about your site myself, as I remember reading about it in the DHSOTM not long ago and then just yesterday I came across a discussion in the wiki about you being banned from it.

To be honest I was shocked and appalled! Your site is full of useful information for Apache users and I couldn't BELIEVE you were being banned for spamming your website all over the wiki. But then I noticed that your user talk page is FULL of warnings. Those wiki OPs seem to be harassing you a lot!! But wait.... they seem to ONLY be harassing you!! Why is that do you think?
I mean... I've personally posted a bunch of PHP-related articles and have been active in developing the current PHP5 Install Script article in the wiki, I've linked to MANY external sites within those articles (at the bottom, official and unofficial), and I've yet to be even so much as warned for inappropriately labeling (or not labeling) an article, the links I provided, etc etc. I wonder why that is...... what do you think? Could it perhaps be because I'm not going around spamming my website all over the forums and the wiki?

If you wish to promote DreamHost, then I STRONGLY suggest you do so like the rest of us. Spamming your website and all of that seems to only be getting you into more and more trouble; and as DreamHost appears to be supporting those who are "harassing" you, you might strongly consider taking this as a sign that you're probably WRONG.

Sage Weil page deletion from Wikipedia causes broken link in Dreamhost page.

> Your site is full of useful information for Apache users

I agree. Unfortunately the wiki admins are too invested in personal vendettas and selective enforcement of vague rules...

> they seem to ONLY be harassing you!

No, they "harass" anyone who who gets on their target list.

> I STRONGLY suggest you do so like the rest of us.

You mean getting control of the wiki early and "subtly" adding our self-promotion links in while nobody notices? Then protecting our favorites with admin power.

Edited by TCAS on 11/11/07 12:13 PM (server time).

Welcome to the forum, TCAS. I see this is your very first post, at least under this username anyway.

In reply to:
I agree. Unfortunately the wiki admins are too invested in personal vendettas and selective enforcement of vague rules...

That is your personal (and incorrect) opinion. The user in question used the DreamHost Wiki (and this forum) to drive traffic to a number of his sites by placing links all over the place, rather than by writing useful articles on the wiki itself. He also did the same thing with Wikipedia. Furthermore, he misused the DreamHost Wiki and this forum in an attempt to deceive DreamHosters into voting for his site in the DHSOTM contest.

In reply to:
"subtly" adding our self-promotion links in while nobody notices? Then protecting our favorites with admin power.

You are feeding misinformation. I provided a link to an extremely popular XHTML tutorial that I had written, that was too large to be transcribed to the DreamHost Wiki. No "admin powers" were used to "protect" anything. The XHTML article is not (and never has been) protected. The link was restored when a well-known troll removed it for his own personal reasons.

-- si-blog --

In reply to:
Welcome to the forum, TCAS. I see this is your very first post, at least under this username anyway.

I was waiting for rekraplr (or maybe wikidi) to weigh in on this thread ... it looks like I might be disappointed. wink

I do love it though that these threads often seem to be interesting enough to entice a "brand new user" to make their first post. Seems like few things get some people quite as excited as anything that looks like it might interfere with "freedom" to link-spam.

--rlparker

hehe... I see the same forum trolls are still trolling.. and possibly even growing! Do you have to eat many posters to get that big and mean? Or were you just born into the population? lol

I've learned not to argue with these types of stalwarts, they form an opinion based on others opinion's (truly no leaders in this lot) and then they stick to that opinion, come hell or high water, at all costs... for fear of being wrong.

I just let my wiki history, my blog posts, and my undying love of democracy and open-source to do my talking. Any half-intelligent person who comes across any of my stuff sees the value which clearly refutes any and all curious objections raised by the foolish, ignorant, and ill-informed.

Once again, you are all gentlemen and scholars, and I hope some day you see the light.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

And by "light" I am of course referring to my super-seo-spammy blog, AskApache.com which these trolls would have everyone believe is chock-full of spam and non-value articles, when in fact, I have one of the most popular blogs in the blogosphere hosted by DreamHost, and many of my most active readers are they themselves DreamHost employees, who rather enjoyed my latest article title I must say! :)

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
hehe... I see the same forum trolls are still trolling.. and possibly even growing! Do you have to eat many posters to get that big and mean? Or were you just born into the population? lol

I've learned not to argue with these types of stalwarts, they form an opinion based on others opinion's (truly no leaders in this lot) and then they stick to that opinion, come hell or high water, at all costs... for fear of being wrong.

I just let my wiki history, my blog posts, and my undying love of democracy and open-source to do my talking. Any half-intelligent person who comes across any of my stuff sees the value which clearly refutes any and all curious objections raised by the foolish, ignorant, and ill-informed.

Once again, you are all gentlemen and scholars, and I hope some day you see the light.

For our readers, I thought I'd point out the propaganda techniques / advertising techniques used in this post*:
1. Ad Hominem: A Latin phrase which has come to mean attacking your opponent, as opposed to attacking their arguments.
2. Appeal to fear: Appeals to fear seek to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population
3. Black-and-White fallacy: Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice.
4. Big Lie: The repeating of a complex series of events that justify subsequent action.
5. Demonizing the enemy: Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman.
6. Transfer: Also known as "association," this is a technique of projecting positive or negative qualities of one entity to another to make the second more acceptable or to discredit it.

And of course, the worst part of this:
Argumentum ad nauseam: This argument approach uses tireless repetition of an idea.

Askapache is good at what he does, no doubt about that.

*much of this comes from the WikiPedia article on propaganda.

In reply to:
I do love it though that these threads often seem to be interesting enough to entice a "brand new user" to make their first post.

In what can only be a startling coincidence, a "brand new user" was created to launch a series of baseless attacks upon me in Wikipedia, largely concerning the Wikipedia article on DreamHost.

-- si-blog --

i think Dreamhost is a pro-spam company? i never saw anyone spam so openly and especially at their own host. dont most hosts cancel for it?

Yeah, that is interesting (I see I get a mention by the new guy too). Fortunately, Wikipedia seems to sort that stuff out fairly effectively; there are often enough "non agenda driven" editors and gnomes about for those kinds of things to be generally ineffective. wink

--rlparker

In reply to:
i think Dreamhost is a pro-spam company? i never saw anyone spam so openly and especially at their own host. dont most hosts cancel for it?

I think of dreamhost as generally being anti-spam - particularly with their email policy and with their referral program. I dunno about general site spamming obnoxiousness, though. Is there something in the ToS about it? How does the dreamhost ToS compare with other hosts in this regard?

In reply to:

Just thought I'd see what you guys n gals think about my latest promotion to get DreamHost referrals?

I think your actions are against the DH TOS:

"Spam is a common slang term referring to the sending of unsolicited email, instant messaging, or other communication to a large group of people at once. Variations on this practice include off topic (and usually promotional) messages on bulletin boards, guestbooks, Usenet newsgroups, or chat rooms."

This forum seems to be included in the definition.

"Spam is strictly against our Terms and Conditions, and will result in the immediate disablement without refund of any customers who are found to have used spam in conjunction with their DreamHost account."

Last time, Jeff just slapped you...

"Electronic forums such as mail distribution lists and Usenet news groups all have expectations regarding subject area and appropriate etiquette for posting. Users of these forums should be considerate of the expectations and sensitivities of others on the network when posting material for electronic distribution."

At this point, your level of consideration has met my sensitivity.

"The network resources of DreamHost Web Hosting may not be used to impersonate another person or misrepresent authorization to act on behalf of others or DreamHost Web Hosting."

What I see is you lifting content directly from the DH website, and pasting it into your own site. You left the DH links for 'meet the team' and 'send us an email', but added your own link for signing up on top of the lifted text. While this link looks like it will go to your site, it actually does go to the DH sign-up page. This combination gives the impression DH provides a special endorsement for you in the original DH text. In my mind, this is a misrepresentation of your authorization to provide a promocode.

You also have the "sponsored by Dreamhost" link in the DH logo near the upper right portion of you page. Does DH really sponsor you? If DH sponsored me, I would link the DH logo directly to the DH front page as a thank you for the sponsorship. But this is not what you chose. While the apparent URL is on your site, you are just doing the same trick, and sending the curious to the same DH sign-up page.

I think you have so much to give, but it seems you would rather take.

Regards,
Rudy

That whole post is very well stated, Rudy.

In reply to:
You also have the "sponsored by Dreamhost" link in the DH logo near the upper right portion of you page. Does DH really sponsor you? If DH sponsored me, I would link the DH logo directly to the DH front page as a thank you for the sponsorship. But this is not what you chose.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe that site, or it's author, is "sponsored" in any way at all by DreamHost. I recognize, however, that it *might* be, as DreamHost, appears to have not objected to the use of the "Sponsored By Dreamhost" text, their own copy, or the use of the photograph on that page. I'm assuming they have seen the site (or at least some DH staff member/s has/have seen it), as the OP has commented on their reaction.

I'd be interested to know how the photographer who took the picture, or whoever actually holds the copyright on the picture, feels about it and whether it's use on that site is legally authorized.

In reply to:
While the apparent URL is on your site, you are just doing the same trick, and sending the curious to the same DH sign-up page.

..And sets two different rewards program related cookies at the same time. wink

In reply to:
I think you have so much to give, but it seems you would rather take.

I've commented before, in exchanges with the OP, that his site is only diminished by his linking practices; it's obvious he feels differently about it.

It's the same old "telemarketer, junk-mailer, fax-spammer, windshield-wiper littering, mailbox-clogging, porch-cluttering, link-spamming, in-your-face" methodology that "promoters" of this ilk have always used, no matter how much others dislike being subjected to it. In their mind, "it's all good" because they are "entrepreneurs", and they could not care less whether their tactics are welcome. No matter how they posture themselves at any given time, their acts make it clear that the only interests they care about are their own.

--rlparker

How do you get this really cool list of dreamhost servers and IPs?

In reply to:
How do you get this really cool list of dreamhost servers and IPs?

Ardco alert

Ok first of all, trying to say any of my contributions are even close to the spam referred to in the TOS is absolutely ridiculous, speculate if you want but I won't argue such logical fallacies, I do have a job.

Secondly, the only people in the whole world who are offended by my contributions are the 3 or 4 guys in this forum who have been harassing me and slandering me since I've been here, of which I have a detailed record in case of legal action.

DreamHost knows is that I support them on every page of my site, not to mention a huge number of clients hosted with them. I send other webmasters and web developers to DH, and they make excellent clients. And I am cool with DH because I am cool and give them and others the respect they deserve. I don't care who their friends are or how many posts they have.. If DH ever even had a slight issue with anything I am doing and let me know through an official channel, than obviously I would cease and desist immediately. But they realize I'm good for business, and everyone likes me.

We've even had lawyers look at some of these issues and the last time I was harrassed on a forum and my well-intentioned post turned into flames. I have been assured I am not even close to breaking TOS.

You 3 or 4 guys are the only ones with a problem, because you create these perceptions in your head. Anyone who actually reads anything I link to, sees that it is always relevant and not spammy at all. Don't be jealous because what I do produces results and what you do is troll and hate.

See what I meant about Synergy and negative loops of thought? Who wins with these guys? Nobody... its all about whats wrong and bringing people down to their level. Thats why they are trolls, they need to eat posters to feel better.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

Here are just a few of the DreamHost articles I've published freely on my blog for DreamHosters. Keep in mind that these are the links they keep calling spam and promotional.

The reason I can get a little peeved at these haters is because I look at what is actually going down. I wrote a brief article recommending customers to sign up with DreamHost on my blog and linked to it from the "curious about dreamhost" forum for potential customers to see. Then I posted it in the "promotion" forum because its an effective promotional example and I thought someone on the forum would be appreciative for sharing my success.

The bottom line is that I was promoting DreamHost! These guys are disruptive and anti-dreamhost in this customer discussion and obviously don't have any business sense or direct liability to DreamHost's success or failure. I like DreamHost and I like how they treat me as a customer so I'm helping other people out there in the world to find and connect with DreamHost, plain and simple. Yet even though this may be obvious to most of us, these forum soldiers are so deluded that they refuse to see anything about what I am doing and the content I am contributing because they just see my name and zoneeeeeeee. Out.

As proof of my most DreamHost excellenceness, here are just a few of the 100% free articles on my blog that help DreamHost customers in valuable ways... And indeed help DreamHost by reducing the cpu and bandwidth consumption of customers who implement my tips, not to mention all the new customers from my positive spread-the-word articles and general positive outlook.

* Ultimate htaccess File sample
* Speed Up Sites with htaccess Caching
* Mod_rewrite Tips and Tricks
* Custom PHP.ini tips and tricks
* Apache Directives and Modules on DreamHost
* Speed Tips: Use Multiple SubDomains
* Custom Webmaster Shell Environment
* Multiply your DreamHost Referrals
* On-Demand MySQL Backup Shell Script
* Custom PHP.ini with FastCGI on DreamHost
* SPF Records on DreamHost
* Shell Scripts for Dreamhost
* Turn On Compression
* Add Future Expires Header
* Add Cache-Control Headers
* Turn Off ETags
* Remove Last-Modified Header
* Use Multiple SubDomains

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!Edited by askapache on 11/12/07 08:23 PM (server time).

In reply to:

If DH ever even had a slight issue with anything I am doing and let me know through an official channel, than obviously I would cease and desist immediately.

So I am to assume this was communication through an un-official channel? LMAO!

Regards,
Rudy

On edit: I see you have removed the photograph from your site (copyright concern?) though the text is still on your site. Are your lawyers really sure about your position:
"Gaining referrals through misrepresentation, improper use of DreamHost intellectual property (ie. DreamHost trademarks and copyrighted material) or impersonation of DreamHost personnel is strictly prohibited and can result in loss of accrued Rewards and/or removal from the program."

Do you consider adding your link to the DH text to be "proper" use of DH IP? Of course, your opinion has equal weight with my opinion. I suppose DH could server you with a DMCA takedown notice...

Regards,
Rudy

Edited by oodways on 11/12/07 08:24 PM (server time).

Jeff did follow up with me in private through an official channel later, and later with another DreamHost official, and the issue they had was specifically posting links in the forum, wiki, or other official DH site that would automatically cause an action to occur in the official DH panel.

I hope that answers your question/comment?

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
Do you consider adding your link to the DH text to be "proper" use of DH IP? Of course, your opinion has equal weight with my opinion. I suppose DH could server you with a DMCA takedown notice...

You are barking up the wrong tree here bro, don't be ridiculous, the melodrama is a little silly don't you think. If you want you can take a look at my trademark usage policies and copyright notices and TOS. I removed the image because I could see how it might be innapropriately construed with the given title, and I certainly did not want to be offensive. I link to the page the text was taken from, and indeed that is what the whole article is about.

If you knew anything about DH's referral program (or just read my article or past discussions here, or the panel or wiki), you would know that even if I didn't have my referral link in the DH text I would still get the referral. The reason I use the referral link that I use is clear from reading my article in my signature. Its to be able to send my sites visitors to the sign-up page with certain "ideal" settings preselected for them to make it easier for them to konw what they should get.

This is a most useful feature for me and the customer, and in fact it cuts down on the number of robot requests to the real dreamhost referral link, thus speeding up the web panel for all of us. A large number of the highest-trafficked sites on dreamhost now use the same linking method I outlined in my article. Which I will keep up as long as its relevant, so that you and other dreamhosters can always benefit from the free advice.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

So basically, you're a forum spammer and content/site ripper who feels that he's being trolled, so you spam more to not only attempt to get more attention but constantly repeat the same garbage over and over in hopes that someone will come to your side?

If anyone is that stupid - I'll be surprised. Very surprised. (New forum posters/members need not apply, as I can also register 100+ accounts to "support" my cause)

Oh, wow, let's have a look at that site in your signature. Shall we compare who gives more useful or innovative information to dreamhosters and apache users? Please. Your site barely feeds my addblocker, and I really doubt you can tell me how to create this cool list of dreamhost servers and IPs. You really don't see what's going on here and in dreamhost's wiki? To the back of the class with you! wink

In reply to:
I can also register 100 accounts to "support" my cause

Idle boaster! laugh

Edited by TCAS on 11/12/07 09:24 PM (server time).

I don't actually claim to give advice on my website to Dreamhosters (nor do I in my sig), so that's like comparing apples and tuna fish wink

I make 0 revenue from that website and it's purpose was purely to provide users (not just of DreamHost) with a way to install shell applications, mostly targeted towards PHP setups, that wouldn't require them to pull their hair out. I have no need for ads or other such garble on my website, such as "Supported by Dreamhost" claims when Dreamhost certainly has never voiced such support to me directly.

I've also not spammed the wiki or forums here with links to my site and only provide such in my signature, which I find more than adequate to inform someone of my services, assuming they are even remotely interested. I don't lie to nor do I attempt to misconstrue my fellow Dreamhosters, such as your site does currently. I'm active in IRC and the forums and I actually work to help people - whereas your posts (under your askapache and cduke nicknames) have not done so but rarely (if you can even call it that).

Your post here is not funny, not interesting, not even creative - and I do very much hope that the Dreamhost staff consider terminating your accounts here on the forums - soon if at all possible. You spreading of lies, deceit, and bashing of helpful members to this community is a very unwelcoming sight for Dreamhost's customers: Potential, new, and veterans alike.

Goodbye and good riddance.

I could've sworn I saw some affiliate links on your site, including a nifty php one sorta' like askapache's tricky deal. Sorry it's not working out as well for you.

Different strokes and different venues for different folks...

See ya, Smarty Pants. smile

In reply to:
I have no need for ads or other such garble on my website, such as "Supported by Dreamhost" claims when Dreamhost certainly has never voiced such support to me directly.

My site says sponsored by dreamhost because I'm proud to be running DreamHost, and I want my readers to benefit from DreamHost by switching hosts, so I let them know about the best.

In reply to:
I've also not spammed the wiki or forums here with links to my site and only provide such in my signature, which I find more than adequate to inform someone of my services, assuming they are even remotely interested.

The majority of people don't believe I spammed either. I did post links to relevant articles on my site when I thought it might help someone, but never spammed.

In reply to:
I don't lie to nor do I attempt to misconstrue my fellow Dreamhosters, such as your site does currently.

Ok, where? Name 1 place and if its a valid concern I will change it.

In reply to:
I'm active in IRC and the forums and I actually work to help people - whereas your posts (under your askapache and cduke nicknames) have not done so but rarely (if you can even call it that).

I believe my posts speak for themselves, thats why I posted a link above. If you feel they do not help you, well gee whiz man I can't please everyone, read the comments on my articles if you want to know what the rest of the world thinks.

In reply to:
You spreading of lies, deceit, and bashing of helpful members to this community is a very unwelcoming sight for Dreamhost's customers

Ok, name 1 lie. Name one place where I was dishonest, name 1 time I bashed a member being helpful to me? Name 1 time I ever went on someone else's thread and bashed them like you are currently doing to mine? If its so boring, uncreative, and bad, don't read it.. peace!

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
The reason I use the referral link that I use is clear from reading my article in my signature. Its to be able to send my sites visitors to the sign-up page with certain "ideal" settings preselected for them to make it easier for them to konw what they should get.

RIght. What a crock! From your "article" that this thread discusses:

"This is why many of the worlds most-respected web developers and designers are flocking to dreamhost. I found it thanks to 456bereastreet.com, and now I'm telling you."

The "bolded" text (my bolding, for emphasis and to indicate that it is "linked" on your site) implies there is something you are "telling" the user waiting at the other end of that link. It being linked in a way that shows "http://www.askapache.com/hosting/" in the browser status bar on hover only reinforces that expectation. Most users will assume that, if clicked, that link would take them to "something" on *your site* (a directory named "hosting" perhaps?) where they will find some other content related to the "I'm telling you" text, but it instead takes them "offsite" to DreamHost's signup page *and* sets both the DreamHost "promo" and "referred" cookies. That is *not* at all about making it "easier for them to konw (sic) what they should get."

It's deceitful on the face of it, and you can try to dress it up and clean it off all you want but it will continue to smell like the feces that it is. It may, or may not be, "ideal" for *anyone* other than you, as it inserts the promo code *without* indicating *anywhere* what, if any, benefit the promo code provides the potential customer.

To repeat the same linking procedure further down the page, replacing DreamHost's original link, in their own "copied" text from their aboutus.html page, is again deceitful and misleading, and I'm surprised DreamHost lets you get away with doing that.

To try to represent such repeated deceit as being "a most useful feature for me and the customer" is pathetic, and to actually offer in argument that such deceitful action "cuts down on the number of robot requests to the real dreamhost referral link, thus speeding up the web panel for all of us", while it may be, or may not be, technically correct, is *completely* insignificant when measured against the misleading and deceitful aspects of the practice.

I'll tell you what it *is* useful for though: It makes it clear, to anyone who realizes what that link does, how you operate and what you feel is appropriate. That's a good thing in a discussion like this, because it makes it easy for someone just joining the conversation to immediately see "first hand" your misleading and deceitful actions for what they are, without having to wade through months of your forum, and wiki, posting history or further exploring your site. Thanks for that. smile

In reply to:
A large number of the highest-trafficked sites on dreamhost now use the same linking method I outlined in my article.

So you say, but just how many *is* "a large number"? You haven't provided any metrics to back up that claim. Until you do, wise users are well advised to consider that statement as just hyperbole given your demonstrated candor and transparency. Even if it is true, is *that* the goal to which a website should aspire? Anyone want to guess what content drives many of the "highest-trafficked sites on dreamhost" (or the internet as a whole)? Deceitful and dishonest linking practices to drive traffic where desired is as old as the commercialization of the internet, just like spam. malware, and exploits. Common existence of such things does not make them any more palatable.

In reply to:
Which I will keep up as long as its relevant, ...

Meh - I suspect you will keep up such activity as long as you consider it relevant, can get away with it, and while it continues to give you pleasure. There's no surprise in that for anyone who has ever dealt with a pushy carnival barker, a nagging telemarketer, an obnoxious used car salesman, an aggressive pimp, or a persistent tagger.

In reply to:
..so that you and other dreamhosters can always benefit from the free advice.

I don't expect for one moment to influence your thinking about this subject; if there was any chance of that happening it would have happened already given the exhaustive nature of our previous exchanges.

The reason I'm posting in this thread is because one of the few productive things that might evolve from this discussion is that other DreamHosters may consider, and reject as unacceptable, the inherent deceitfulness of such linking practices and we can all "benefit" by them avoiding your "free advice" when it comes to such activity.

--rlparker

In reply to:
My site says sponsored by dreamhost because I'm proud to be running DreamHost, and I want my readers to benefit from DreamHost by switching hosts, so I let them know about the best.

So are you saying that we are allowed to use the terminology "sponsored by DreamHost" in connection with the DreamHost Affiliate Program? That would surprise me.

In reply to:
So are you saying that we are allowed to use the terminology "sponsored by DreamHost" in connection with the DreamHost Affiliate Program? That would surprise me.

I think it's more likely he is being disingenuous or dishonest; or just doesn't really know what "sponsored" means (and can't find a dictionary!) wink

--rlparker

In reply to:
How do you get this really cool list of dreamhost servers and IPs?

Look up the zone info for dreamhost.com?

I'm actually much more interested in how he managed to get the only two people that left comments on that post (one of whom claimed to be a DreamHost employee - "2007-02-22, 3:36 pm by Peter@Dreamhost") to include as "their" link the *same* misleading and deceitful link that displays in the status bar as being to "http://www.a*kap*ache.com/dream/" but actually takes the browser off site to the DreamHost signup page and sets both the DreamHost "referred" and "promo" cookies to the same values as the *other* misleading and deceitful link already being discussed.

Hey, it *could* have happened, right? Both those posters decided to link *themselves* that way. Uh huh, sure, I believe it (not)!

The link text and context means little in *several* places on that site, For example, the linked "number" of a comment on that page shows in the status bar on hover to be a link to a comment number, but if you click it, you get what I suppose is intended to be "SEO" friendly summary page of non-related posts.

I know! It's a game! Click a link and wait to see where it really takes you, *that* sounds like fun!

"Woot! I figured out a (well known) way to obfuscate my links so that I send people where I want instead of where they expect to go, and I can set cookies for sites that are not mine while I'm at it! I'm a web wizard! Look at me, aren't I clever?"

--rlparker

In reply to:
The "bolded" text (my bolding, for emphasis and to indicate that it is "linked" on your site) implies there is something you are "telling" the user waiting at the other end of that link. It being linked in a way that shows "http://www.askapache.com/hosting/" in the browser status bar on hover only reinforces that expectation. Most users will assume that, if clicked, that link would take them to "something" on *your site* (a directory named "hosting" perhaps?) where they will find some other content related to the "I'm telling you" text, but it instead takes them "offsite" to DreamHost's signup page *and* sets both the DreamHost "promo" and "referred" cookies. That is *not* at all about making it "easier for them to konw (sic) what they should get."

It's deceitful on the face of it, and you can try to dress it up and clean it off all you want but it will continue to smell like the feces that it is. It may, or may not be, "ideal" for *anyone* other than you, as it inserts the promo code *without* indicating *anywhere* what, if any, benefit the promo code provides the potential customer.

To repeat the same linking procedure further down the page, replacing DreamHost's original link, in their own "copied" text from their aboutus.html page, is again deceitful and misleading, and I'm surprised DreamHost lets you get away with doing that.

I don't get it, didn't we already explain this? still back to that same old thing huh.. Don't you understand that when a user goes to your site and from your site they goto any dreamhost link, those cookies are set, the same cookies set by my link.

We will just have to disagree.

Just like on a blog the default urls are blog.com/site/?p=1189&date=3434 you always use permalinks so that you get blog.com/site/post-title/ I can't see where you think its misleading, other than your personal opinion on the matter, which isn't very friendly.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

Ok now your just sending out wild-gooses.. Its in the first sentence in the encyclopedia.

In reply to:
To sponsor something is to support an event, activity, person, or organization financially or through the provision of products or services.

Are you guys just going to keep nitpicking, I mean really this is going a little over-the-edge.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
I don't get it, didn't we already explain this? still back to that same old thing huh.. Don't you understand that when a user goes to your site and from your site they goto any dreamhost link, those cookies are set, the same cookies set by my link.

We will just have to disagree.

I understand what you are doing perfectly, and I think it is misleading and deceitful for the reasons I've explained previously; the incidental setting of the cookies is one of the side-effects of the basic deceit.

Excerpting (with obfuscated url) from your site:

In reply to:
"In my case, I link to http://www.*sk*p*che.com/dream/ which I theorize is much more appealing to a user who sees a local link in the browsers status bar instead of the dreamhost.com/redir.cgi?211825 link, which may turn them off the click."

It would only "turn them off the click" if they *do not want to go where they think the click will send them*. You call it "more appealing", I call it misleading. If a user wants to click from a link on your site to the DreamHost sign-up page, they shouldn't have to be "tricked" into doing it because they *think* they are going to get taken somewhere else on your site. I don't think I'm the one having a problem understanding what is deceitful.

Setting the cookie surreptitiously only completes the "scummy" flavor of the deceit you have already perpetrated by inducing them to click something they might otherwise have chosen to avoid.

Your comment that "when a user goes to your site and from your site they goto any dreamhost link, those cookies are set, the same cookies set by my link" is patently untrue *unless I set the DreamHost cookies or pass a referrer code*. I contend that to first "trick" them into clicking, and to set the cookies while you are at it, is an unethical and unfair manipulation of the user. I have less problem with sites that "link cleanly" and set the cookie when they do it - the user at least knows where they are being taken and I'll grant that setting the cookies in that situation might be a convenience.

Of course, that doesn't address at all the fact that with most of these links on your site, you do not indicate anywhere in relation to the link what the "promo code" provides the user in the way of benefit. Today you are giving a $97 discount? $50 off? Meh- who knows today or tomorrow what the promo code stuffed into the cookie is going to provide? No matter, if they sign up it is your referral - so it is a "win" for the only one who counts (you!).

There is nothing new at all here, these tactics are almost as old as the web (and older in other marketing environs). You are correct that we will "just have to disagree" about whether or not such tactics, and links, are ethical. My opinion on that is very clear.

In reply to:
Just like on a blog the default urls are blog.com/site/?p=1189&date=3434 you always use permalinks so that you get blog.com/site/post-title/ I can't see where you think its misleading, other than your personal opinion on the matter, which isn't very friendly.

There is a pretty significant difference between "pretty-fying" urls linking to content on your own site and obfuscating urls so that users are led to believe they are staying "on-site" when they are really being whisked away to where *you* want them to go. One is primarily a convenience to the user, an "aesthetic" nicety, and (nowadays, arguably) a concession to SEO considerations while the other is just plain old trickery. C"mon, you *know* this stuff - "Me thinks thou dost protest too much."

And *that* whole discussion is only a part of my "unfriendly opinion on the matter". You already know how I feel about your link-spamming the forums and the wiki.

Your site has some useful and valuable information. It also has misleading and incorrect information all over it:

* Sponsored by Dreamhost
* Best DreamHost Discount Promo Code Ever (posted when it *wasn't* as I pointed out in a previous thread on these forums - hyperbole again?)
* Links that don't even stay on the same site displayed in the status bar on hover
* Your famous (infamous?) "signup links" linked to the text of comment posters' names

... at that point I quit even looking for more misleading representations

meh ... "Friendly" has nothing to do with it. You "prey" on less sophisticated users, and encourage others to do the same. The "Dark Side" has you in it's grips.

--rlparker

Well thats quite an entertaining sob story but that was settled a long time ago by DreamHost.. Perfectly legal! If you get that offended by a redirection than the Internet is not for you. Fire up wireshark and you'll see redirections en-masse. I believe I have a free tutorial online if you need help getting started. Just remember the truth about URI's. a uri points to a resource, the uri is just a pointer.

I realize that some of you know some things, but people really don't care if a link that takes them to dreamhost and sets the same cookies says site.com or dreamhost.com?cgi=234 because it is taking them to the same place, where they want to go. It is totally transparent for 99.99% of users.. seriously I grew up on a different internet than you, this is just ridiculous complaints.

BTW rlparker, thanks for pointing out that my #comment links were all pointing to my home page, that was a big mistake and I've accidentally had it like that for 2 days! I was experimenting with some XSLT XML generation for an auto .rdf file/post, and its considered best-practices to include a <base href="http://site.com/uri/" /> in the <head> I just found out, so thats why they were doing that.. Instead of making them relative to each uri I made them all relative to / ... Literally kills any seo.. but I am out here with my nose to the wire experimenting anyways and sharing what I learn, cuz i'm not interested in anything but results, and that means test, test, test.

I can't believe you even tried to mention the "Dark Side", whatever that means.. my blog is a big fat G!

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

"Look up the zone info for dreamhost.com?"

Give us the whole fish kit now - how do you do that?

In reply to:
You "prey" on less sophisticated users, and encourage others to do the same. The "Dark Side" has you in it's grips.

Don't you develop pr0n sites for ca$h? Maybe we can compare with your "sponsors" tactics. To be fair here.

When Dreamhost's paying you, not you particularly but customers with lots of referral rewards, "sponsored" seems about right.
If the method turns out real good, "best ever" seems ok, as a marketing claim.

I don't like semi-hidden links or 3rd party ads and tracking either - we can generally agree on that - and they're very similar to what you're complaining about.

At least askapache tells how he does it. Some stuff anyway. laugh

Edited by TCAS on 11/13/07 05:01 AM (server time).

Your own chosen reference refutes your argument (unless you are maintaining that DreamHost provides you financial support). Apparently the reference to which you you linked was confusing to you, or you don't understand the basics of construction (go ask one of your lawyers about what "construction" means in interpreting a document), so I'll explain it.

First, though (since I can understand why some might be suspicious of clicking on any of your links) the *whole* reference is important (it's that pesky "construction" thing again) I encourage anyone who is still interested in any of this blather to read the whole thing (the link was "safe" when I clicked it wink ).

One might blithely maintain that "buying hosting from DreamHost represents DreamHost "sponsorship" since they are involved in "the provision of goods and services" if the reference stopped there ("it doesn''t say they have to provide their services in a financially beneficial way"), but it doesn't. The final sentence of the two sentence introduction to the subject serves to amplify and clarify the first sentence, and likens the sponsor (In "sponsored by DreamHost", Dreamhost is the sponsor) to a benefactor.

The rest of the reference (8 additional paragraphs) goes on to amplify and explain that first paragraph, and describes sponsorship in various forms where each form entails a "benefit" to the "sponsored" at the expense of the "sponsor" (with some additional amplifying information at the end).

Compare this with your own description of how you consider yourself "Sponsored by DreamHost" and tell me in what way, described in the reference *you* provided, you are "sponsored" by DreamHost (or do you have a "secret deal?)

It's only "nitpicking" to you because of your casual relationship with candor and truth (as I've pointed out in previous posts). You call it "going a little over-the-edge," because you don't like being pinned down with any precision about the truth of your claim. Every English speaker here understands what "Sponsored by DreamHost" implies, and your quibbling over how you interpret your own reference on the subject is really pretty lame.

Now if it turns out that your site is "sponsored by DreamHost" I'll be the first in line to apologize profusely for having stated my suspicion of that claim, but you'll need a better explanation than you've offered to convince me that your statement to that effect is not *at best* a disingenuous "fudge" on the nature of your actual relationship with DreamHost.

--rlparker

In reply to:
Well thats quite an entertaining sob story but that was settled a long time ago by DreamHost.. Perfectly legal!

And being "perfectly legal" is what makes it ethical? And what does *that* have to do with the appropriateness of your promotional linking on the forums or the wiki? We most certainly live on different planets, but thankfully that should be pretty obvious to even a casual observer at this point. wink

There are plenty of legitimate uses for re-directions (I use them all the time) - your misrepresenting the target of links in the linked text and the browser status bar is not one of them.

In reply to:
..people really don't care if a link that takes them to dreamhost and sets the same cookies says site.com or dreamhost.com?cgi=234 because it is taking them to the same place, where they want to go.

Ha! right! That's why you have to "encourage" them to click - because they really *do* want to go to the DreamHost signup page when they click a comment poster's name or another text link that is completely unrelated to "sign up now". Ha ha ha. Do you really think that anybody (other than your linkspamming buddies) believes that? Hell, my work here is obviously pretty much done. smile

In reply to:
... seriously I grew up on a different internet than you, this is just ridiculous complaints.

You probably *did* "grow up" on a different internet than I did ... it wasn't called the internet when I first used DARPA net, then ARPA net. It looks like you "grew up" around the time of the AOLization of the networks, and the influx of commercial marketeers that would like see the internet as the telemarketeers' "next great thing". Meh, how can you be expected to see it any other way if you never experienced an internet that was used to the users' benefit rather than to the benefit of those peddling something.

In reply to:
BTW rlparker, thanks for pointing out that my #comment links were all pointing to my home page, that was a big mistake and I've accidentally had it like that for 2 days!

You're welcome. wink

--rlparker

You want to pay my fee? wink

--rlparker

"DARPA net, then ARPA net."

i.e. Sponsored by "appropriated" tax dollars - not commercially self-supported...

"used to the users' benefit "

which is easier when the IRS takes the money for you, and you don't have to be concerned with the tactics.

The sad thing about all this is that AskApache's articles are genuinely interesting and useful. He is clearly a very knowledgeable and talented web programmer with a deep understanding of the Apache Web Server and all its various foibles. I could never hope to learn and master a fraction of what seems to come to AskApache naturally.

Unfortunately though, I can never visit any of his websites or recommend them to any of my web colleagues because he has chosen to hoodwink users with misleading redirection, misrepresent DreamHost with claims that they "sponsor" his site, and try to cheat DreamHosters into voting for his site in the DHSOTM contest. He has ignored our repeated warnings about his deceptive behavior, and he appears to have convinced himself that he is doing nothing wrong. Perhaps he believes that because he has the support of The Troll™ (whose many different user names give the illusion of widespread support) and only a few of us can be bothered to get involved in the argument, he is doing nothing wrong.

AskApache, I ask you this: Please continue to use your website to inform your users and generate revenue for yourself, but can you please stop using this forum and the DreamHost Wiki (or Wikipedia, for that matter) as vehicles of self promotion? Let the quality of your work speak for itself - you do not need to resort to these methods because your talent is self-evident. There is nothing wrong with having a link in your signature, but all these other links that set cookies and point to articles that tell users how to cheat and deceive are simply inappropriate (in my personal opinion).

-- si-blog --

In reply to:
Don't you develop pr0n sites for ca$h? Maybe we can compare with your "sponsors" tactics. To be fair here.

Ha ha ha! Now I understand why you asked about how to use google in your earlier post. I've developed a lot of sites in my day, but always have resisted the temptation to get into the porn business.

I've even managed to resist the temptation to make some money when pornsters offer to buy the domains I hold that are my daughters' names. It seems that at this point in time *any* female name is "hot property" to porn site operators).

I *have*, however, registered "GirlyGoatsGoneWild.com" and "fustercluck.org", so we'll see what the future brings. Actually, that first site is planned to be a parody site, and fthe second is probably gonna end up as political commentary site for the upcoming U.S. Elections. Note that neither of those site are linked here, in fact they are not even up! And, nope, I have no sponsors, only clients. smile

In reply to:
When Dreamhost's paying you, not you particularly but customers with lots of referral rewards, "sponsored" seems about right. If the method turns out real good, "best ever" seems ok, as a marketing claim.

I see the point you are making, but i submit that "seems about right" and "seems ok, as a marketing claim" assumes a certain "casualness" with the truth. Now, if you mean "as a marketing claim" to imply "not really true, but an typical come-on of the type to be expected from "shady" marketeers, and those guys that hang out outside the strip clubs, I'd probably agree.

In reply to:
I don't like semi-hidden links or 3rd party ads and tracking either - we can generally agree on that - and they're very similar to what you're complaining about.

Thanks for that, and I'm glad to find others that feel that way. I enjoy agreeing on any and every thing, and with everyone, I can! It reaffirms that at some level we all have *something* in common with one another.

In reply to:
At least askapache tells how he does it. Some stuff anyway.

I agree that's worth something, though I'd feel better about that "sharing" if he did it without splattering his links around in the Forum and the wiki, and wasn't so excited about promoting what I perceive to be a despicable linking practice. wink

--rlparker

Ha ha ha .. that's true to be sure, to a very great degree! smile

--rlparker

I wish I had said that.

--rlparker

In reply to:

Secondly, the only people in the whole world who are offended by my contributions are the 3 or 4 guys in this forum who have been harassing me and slandering me since I've been here, of which I have a detailed record in case of legal action.

hahahahaha. Oh please, bring it!! Feel free to have your lawer email me or pm me here on the forums and I'll be happy to provide my lawyer's phone # and address. I imagine he'd get a pretty good laugh with your's over the whole thing smile

In reply to:

But they realize I'm good for business, and everyone likes me.

Really? So when Josh "officially" disqualified your site from the DHSOTM, that shows you were "good for business"... how? By manipulating people to vote for your site and spam-advertising it everywhere? You might also take note of what exactly Josh said to you in his official news letter on the DHSOTM in May, when you were disqualified:

In reply to:

May's DreamHost Site of the Marmalade is somewhat a departure from our usual fare of flash portfolio/online radio winners. In fact, it's a bit of a controversial winner, because it's the first time I've ever seen a DHSOTM winner who on the front page has a HUGE logo for "Vote AskApache DreamHost Site of the Marmalade".

Now, that sort of thing is highly frowned upon around here. You would never catch US stooping to such tactics just for the chance to win the authorization to put a smarmy gif on OUR web site. I'm THIS close to disallowing the whole thing, but I guess we'll let it slide this one time, as there is some pretty useful content over at:

http://www.askapache.com/

and it's nice to go to a DHSOTM winner who's site doesn't make my PII 666Mhz Celeron dump core all over my broiled chicken salad without croutons. Er wait. I just found out he "won" not just by promoting the contest at his own site, but by putting direct links to the "vote" option at our discussion board and the wiki. DISALLOWED!

Now, I COULD just be making that entire thing up in my head, but I'm pretty sure hundreds if not thousands of Dreamhosters everywhere likewise saw the same thing I did.
Your advertisements of your website on the forums and the wiki, in the manner in which you went about it, disqualified you from winning the DHSOTM. I don't think I need to say any more on this topic - it speaks for itself and backs up the points myself and the others have continued to make to you.
And wait... who likes you again? I haven't seen them voicing their support for you on these forums as of yet. Perhaps you need to register some more, less obvious nicknames to support yourself?

Anyways - I await a phone call/email from your lawyer. Until then, I shall continue disprove your blatant lies and deceitful, one-sided messages so that other Dreamhosters are aware of the facts and not the convoluted, misconstrued "facts" that you continue to preach here on the forums.

"pm me here on the forums and I'll be happy to provide my lawyer's phone # and address."

I'll call that bluff. PM me your lawyer's phone # and address, and I will contact them.

In reply to:
Now I understand why you asked about how to use google in your earlier post. I've developed a lot of sites in my day, but always have resisted the temptation to get into the porn business.
...
Now, if you mean "as a marketing claim" to imply "not really true, but an typical come-on of the type to be expected from "shady" marketeers, and those guys that hang out outside the strip clubs, I'd probably agree.

Uh, I didn't mention google earlier. And sorry - I must've misunderstood your "affiliations;" apparently you're the pr0n/strip "sponsor" or "client", not the sponsoree or provider... (if you say so, but you seem to know a little too much about the business).

BTW, You're trying to stretch what I said into what you mean. What I mean is askapache does what Dreamhost encourages, and what many people do. Scjessey wasn't the first to slip self-promotional links into wikipedia and elsewhere, and askapache won't be the last. It's aka putting the truth into the best possible light when one agrees with it; it's "shady" when one doesn't like it.

In reply to:
Thanks for that, and I'm glad to find others that feel that way.

Settle down, Sir. Our opinions overlap slightly here, but your condemnation is much too strong for my liking. I don't like the method, but it's a common practice all over. I Addblock it and Javascript block it and go on. I don't get irate and target the guy in the wiki and elsewhere just because he made the mistake of being more aggressive than others, or double posted (Ohnoo!).

In reply to:
You want to pay my fee?

Unless it's only the usual "encouragement" to use more of your Infinite Ink supply... Mom! Rlparker's soliciting in the forum again! Waa! wink

Edit: semi-non-random Dreamhost example: Who can spot the "rose colored marketing verbage?"

In reply to:
The absolute fastest way to get answers to most of your questions is to search through our extensive online documentation. Our wiki is maintained by both DreamHost staff and our most knowledgeable customers.

It is a wiki so anyone can submit articles or updates. We welcome contributions from everybody! You can start your search using the box on the left, or simply click the link below.

Edited by TCAS on 11/13/07 07:29 PM (server time).

Uhhhhhhhhh, no. In fact, your lawer is required to contact me for any pending legal action. You might want to read up on that, along with the many other legal facts you seem to be missing out on wink

In reply to:
Uh, I didn't mention google earlier. And sorry - I must've misunderstood your "affiliations;"

shocked Oh! I thought your question about how to look up zone info was essentially an indication you needed help on how to use Google, but were maybe just embarrassed to say so. I'm sorry, my bad ... a little misplaced and/or too subtle attempt at humor (that obviously backfired) there. No problem re. "whatever" you understood, or misunderstood, about my "affiliations". I'm well aware that you are confused by all that, which is to be expected since I have chosen not to discuss it at length with you.

As for your remark that I "seem to know a little too much about the business", I can only reply that I believe one can rarely know "too much" about *any* business (knowledge is a "Good Thing" (tm)), and I can only thank my fairly extensive travels and an adventurous lifestyle for having provided me with an adequate understanding of "strip club barkers". As for the interest porn site operators have in domain names consisting of girls names, that is even easier to come by - simply register a few of them with public whois information and they will find you. wink

In reply to:
BTW, You're trying to stretch what I said into what you mean. What I mean is askapache does what Dreamhost encourages, and what many people do... It's aka putting the truth into the best possible light when one agrees with it; it's "shady" when one doesn't like it.

Then I obviously misunderstood you, so thanks for the clarification. I don't believe DreamHost encourages self-promotional linking the wiki, or the forums (and note they have publicly spoken out against such practices). You characterize it any way that suits you, I'll characterize it as I perceive it (and I've done so already, so I see no need to rehash that).

In reply to:
Settle down, Sir. Our opinions overlap slightly here, but your condemnation is much too strong for my liking. I don't like the method, but it's a common practice all over. I Addblock it and Javascript block it and go on. I don't get irate and target the guy in the wiki and elsewhere just because he made the mistake of being more aggressive than others, or double posted (Ohnoo!).

All settled down. So we don't agree at all on anything substantial in the discussion. Oh well. The method being "common practice all over" is arugable, but I see no point to argue that; any such commonality doesn't make it palatable, and that *also* is all a rehash of previously discussed material. You call it targeting "the guy", I call it targeting the "behavior". Funny thing is, the result is the same if the "guy" persists in the "behavior".

In reply to:
You want to pay my fee? ... Unless it's only the usual "encouragement" to use more of your Infinite Ink supply... Mom! Rlparker's soliciting in the forum again! Waa!

Ha ha ha .. once again, you missed the joke entirely, Again, oh well. Just to be clear, let me rephrase that more clearly for you: "No, you ought to be able to figure that out for yourself, so I won't do it for you unless you want to pay me, and I assume that you don't, which is good, because I don't want to work for you." There ya go. That ought to remove any ambiguity about my "soliciting" you on the forum. If you really do want to know how that was done and don't want to figure it out yourself, there is no reason to ask me about it - just go ask they guy whose site you saw it on. After all, he claims he's just trying to help. wink

--rlparker

I know Mousee is not sufficiently ignorant to put some internet troll in direct touch with his attorney, so he could incur legal bills without the troll doing the same.

You should read the "offer" that Mousee actually made instead of quoting only part of the sentence.

The way I read the offer, is that he would respond to the OP's *lawyer* with his legal contact information. He clearly made no offer to put *you* in touch with *anybody*. wink

--rlparker

Oh, parker plays the name calling trump card. I think that makes the name calling score something like 5-0, with at least one "score" for each member of "that" team. Adios and hasta la vista.

People that talk like that when it comes to something as serious as a lawsuit have either never been there, or they just don't realize not everyone plays around. Sometimes it really is the real deal. That is why I keep my mouth shut and keep a detailed court-admissable record of everything that goes on.. remember, I only care about the results. Unfortunately I had to learn that lesson the hard way when I found out it wasn't a game. Those lawyers need their money, and someone inevitably gets hosed.. Law is rather comforting because their the facts are much more black and white, and none of this would fly from either side. I'm just having fun after all :)

TCAS-
I'm really not sure what rlparker means when he keeps referring to google to get the DreamHost IP->hostname resolution list. I spent a good amount of time editing a page somewhere on the wiki, but its probably been reverted since I'm such a major spammer. I may not be as old as rlparker, mr. arpanet himself, but I remember dialing into the net to logon to BBS's almost daily. Luckily I grew up working for an Internet Service Provider for several years, so I know my stuff fairly well, I mean I'm not at the level I would like to be but I never will be. I spent many years playing with various unix/linux/solaris and bsd flavors and that is where I learned everything. To find out about the hosts yourself, you need to have a thorough understanding of the tools dig, host, and nslookup, and their are several others you will also need to master to get good. I learned from years of setting up and administering BIND DNS servers at the ISP, and I used to be very interested in a security-focused career path.

Some of the best reading you will ever find about this stuff is at tldp.org, a great resource full of free tutorials about free open-source. Thats the electronic world where I grew up, where open-source was IT and there was no such thing as charging someone a price. I have contributed a couple articles to the tldp.org (and the mini), and they are written in much the same format as my blog posts are, the difference is that all those BSD/nix guys and gals were all like me and real heavy into the code and finding new and cool stuff to hack.. and it was just normal for everyone to share what they learned and help each other because thats just what we do.

I've said it before and something tells me I'll have to say it again and again. I am not trying to make money from my blog, I am just constantly hacking code and learning new stuff and writing about it to help others. So ya I'd like to say I see where theres room compromise, but its an impossibility that I will ever change my mind about what I know to be fact.. You all are just guessing as to my motivations and actions from your limited view of what I am actually doing and why, you are making assumptions and guesses and somehow you assume that your assumptions are solid gold factual.. Its unfortunate because I really was pumped up about DreamHost when I checked out their server architecture and explored their systems, I really honestly dig it, but I don't dig you guys, you've turned what could have been a great open-source feeling wiki into a place where everyone has to be a tool and adhere to strict rules... Why? Just because wikipedia does? This is DreamHost.. where they don't wear ties and they are my kind of people.

I guess I am still trying to adjust to this "perception" of the internet as a bad place where everyone is out to get money.. I come from the school of open-source that created the protocols and laws that make the net work. And its sad to see its lost its BSD soul. I bet you all run windows :(

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:

People that talk like that when it comes to something as serious as a lawsuit have either never been there, or they just don't realize not everyone plays around. Sometimes it really is the real deal. That is why I keep my mouth shut and keep a detailed court-admissable record of everything that goes on.. remember, I only care about the results. Unfortunately I had to learn that lesson the hard way when I found out it wasn't a game. Those lawyers need their money, and someone inevitably gets hosed.. Law is rather comforting because their the facts are much more black and white, and none of this would fly from either side. I'm just having fun after all :)

Assuming you're referring to me - I can only feel sorry for you. I'm well versed in law and, as chance would have it, a close friend of mine has but a year left of law school before he himself becomes a lawyer. If I need legal console, I can easily consult him and do from time to time.
Open threats of sending your lawyer after someone, as DreamHost themselves can attest to, are always that - open threats. Typically made from someone who's never been to court. But by all means - feel free to have them contact me when you're ready to "battle it out" in court. Until then, your open threats are quite baseless and indeed pointless against, at least, myself. So until I get a message from your lawyer, I shall continue to defend the actions made by the DH Wiki OP's here on the forums.

In reply to:

I'm really not sure what rlparker means when he keeps referring to google to get the DreamHost IP->hostname resolution list. I spent a good amount of time editing a page somewhere on the wiki, but its probably been reverted since I'm such a major spammer.

You did? shocked Well that's interesting, because the only two edits I see made by yourself on the server statistics page, are you having added and edited an external link to your own website. You didn't actually contribute a single thing to the page outside of your usual link spam. It's a shame too, because the article you created yourself is a lot more indepth and would have been a very nice addition to the wiki... alas, it is not currently a part of the wiki frown

In reply to:

I've said it before and something tells me I'll have to say it again and again. I am not trying to make money from my blog, I am just constantly hacking code and learning new stuff and writing about it to help others.

Then please, as we've asked you many times now, STOP spamming your website's links all over. If you really do believe in contributing and helping the community, the best way to go about doing so is to actually EDIT the wiki and add such material - not throw links to your website in there. I have tons and tons of information on shell configurations, custom php setups, and etc etc and I have NOT ONCE linked to my website in the wiki.

As to your comment about this place, specifically the wiki, being "strict" on the rules - I don't see how it could remain organized if it were not as it is currently. Disinformation and link spam, such as you've been accused (of the link spam), is highly likely to turn our nicely organized and well documented wiki into a foo full of misleading information, most of which I imagine would be filled with links to other's websites in an attempt to promote themselves. The goal of the wiki, as is with nearly all wikis, is to promote the continued use of, and addition of data to, itself. External links should, on wikis such as DreamHost's, be used sparingly and links to websites owned by the author them self should certainly never be made, else it start the promotion wars that I previously mentioned. If someone happens to make a link to your site, then that's fine. I see really nothing wrong with that to be honest, and I could definitely see a link to your site as a reference under the .htaccess article as legit. The many other links you posted yourself however... are not so welcome, as you've come to realize.

It's the unfortunate state of the internet that we live these days - which has expanded well beyond the comfort level of many, including myself, to the point of becoming a nearly hostile, if not hostile already, environment. The attacks on the DreamHost wiki alone, made my spam bots and legitimate spammers themselves, is proof enough that the wiki is in need of some defense. If DreamHost actually would get RID of it's affiliate program - I could easily see such personal self-promotional links as those you've posted, to be slightly more acceptable. Though again, used sparingly and preferably created by someone else who had come across your site and found the information posted there relevant to an article in the wiki.

I applaud your open-source project leanings. As such and as you state, you must be a proponent on contributing to projects unfettered by the hangups associated with financial gain. As this applies to knowledge bases, you should be a big fan of open contributions to wikis rather than the creation of encumbered private sites like your own, right? Or no? What do you think?

In reply to:
People that talk like that when it comes to something as serious as a lawsuit have either never been there, or they just don't realize not everyone plays around. ... Those lawyers need their money, and someone inevitably gets hosed

You mean the "bring it on" comment? Well yeah, I pretty much agree about that. There's not really anything productive to come out of that, though it is a pretty common reaction when someone mentions their lawyers in a thread and someone else perceives it as a "veiled threat" and/or feels there are no legal issues involved. When the lawyers get involved, often *everyone* gets hosed (except, of course, the lawyers). wink

In reply to:
Law is rather comforting because their the facts are much more black and white, and none of this would fly from either side. I'm just having fun after all:)

Actually I find the "law" to be more "grey" than "black in white" in many areas, as it often addresses "intent", and that can be hard to ascertain (and much of this thread has been about that).

In reply to:
TCAS- I'm really not sure what rlparker means when he keeps referring to google to get the DreamHost IP->hostname resolution list. I spent a good amount of time editing a page somewhere on the wiki, but its probably been reverted since I'm such a major spammer.

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have tweaked him the way I did about that... I was reacting to what I perceived to be a trollish attempt to go "off topic" in the thread, and I probably shouldn't have. I should have just trusted my basic instincts and ignored him.

I'd be interested in knowing what reversions of your work on the wiki, other than some of your links (which is what started this whole discussion), you are referring to. I stay pretty much abreast of what's going on in the wiki, and I can't recall any of your *content* being reverted., Do you have a page in mind?

I too remember connecting, from home, to BBS systems all over the place with my old acoustic coupler modem (until I could afford a Hayes Smartmodem 300) and the phone bills that resulted. That's "good stuff" at the tldp.org, and I have spent many an hour over there myself.

In reply to:
You all are just guessing as to my motivations and actions from your limited view of what I am actually doing and why, you are making assumptions and guesses and somehow you assume that your assumptions are solid gold factual.. Its unfortunate because I really was pumped up about DreamHost when I checked out their server architecture and explored their systems, I really honestly dig it, but I don't dig you guys, you've turned what could have been a great open-source feeling wiki into a place where everyone has to be a tool and adhere to strict rules... Why? Just because wikipedia does? This is DreamHost.. where they don't wear ties and they are my kind of people.

It's too bad you feel that way. Those of use that work as sysops on the DH wiki are only doing the best we can to be consistent with what we understand DreamHost wants for, and in, the wiki. It is obvious that you and I disagree about what constitutes appropriate linking as defined by DreamHost. As I have said before, I'd love to see DreamHost themselves get a bit more involved in sorting all that out, as I don't need or want the aggravation, but I also don't want the wiki to devolve into a link farm.

In trying to prevent that, it's not nearly so much about assuming motivation, as you suspect and infer, as it is about encouraging "on wiki" content and discouraging "off wiki linking", for several reasons (discussed at length in the last thread about all of this). One of those reasons is simply *because it is so hard* to control needless linking that is primarily promotional in nature (no matter how the poster perceives their own motivation).

Your contention to the contrary notwithstanding, the DreamHost wiki *is* run differently. It is arguably more "open" and "free" then Wikipedia in some ways, just as it is less so in others. This is normal and right; The DreamHost wiki exists for a different purpose, serves a different audience, and has different goals and objectives. I'm wondering if you are just "soured" on it because your linking practices on the DreamHost wiki were received, and perceived, in much the same way on the DreamHost wiki as they were on Wikipedia.

In reply to:
I guess I am still trying to adjust to this "perception" of the internet as a bad place where everyone is out to get money.. I come from the school of open-source that created the protocols and laws that make the net work. And its sad to see its lost its BSD soul. I bet you all run windows :(

I actually identify quite a lot with that feeling, but the fact is that in so many ways that *is* the kind of place the "new" commercial internet has become. You (and I) might be fascinated with the "hackish" aspects of SEO techniques, "creative" linking, and other similar things from a technical standpoint, but the reality is most often nowadays those techniques are rarely used to promulgate "open source" or the spread of knowledge. They are primarily used to drive traffic to monetized sites and/or to "trick" users into clicking a link that takes them where the *link creator* wants them to go, particularly where the user might be hesitant to click the link in the first place.

Usually, the destination is *something* "commercial in nature, whether it be "sedo parking cash generating link farm directory page", a website or blog hoping to generate revenue with adsense or other embedded advertising, or the signup page for a service (be it a porn site or a web host) that pays a referral/affiliate benefit to whoever "drove" the traffic. Yeah, *that* kinda thing *does* evidence a loss of the internet's "BSD soul", and it makes me sad too.

In reply to:
I bet you all run windows :(

Try as I may, I haven't been able to completely avoid wind*ze as of yet, as I still have to provide basic tech support and "wind*ze troubleshooting and resurrection services" for clients that don't know any better, but my personal boxen run linux, in various flavors and distributions (primarily Debian and, of late, Ubuntu). I've had OpenBSD and FreeBSD machines set up in the past, though not at present).

--rlparker

All this talk of lawyers is really silly, chaps. It's right up there with mentioning Nazis and iPhones. Nobody's really going to lawyer-up over this, unless they are both retarded and financially profligate.

-- si-blog --

In reply to:
All this talk of lawyers is really silly, chaps. It's right up there with mentioning Nazis and iPhones. Nobody's really going to lawyer-up over this, unless they are both retarded and financially profligate.

I was seriously considering taking some legal action the last time I posted in this forum, for some pretty clear cut examples of online defamation against me, which I absolutely will not tolerate. That said, I haven't seen any of that in this discussion, so I haven't mentioned it. As far as having me lawyer phone yours, don't be so naive, if I was coming after you it would be for a good reason and it wouldn't be a laughing matter for anyone.

In reply to:
Generally, defamation is a false and unprivileged statement of fact that is harmful to someone's reputation, and published "with fault," meaning as a result of negligence or malice. State laws often define defamation in specific ways. Libel is a written defamation; slander is a spoken defamation.

Now I want to make sure that I clear up my feelings about the DreamHost wiki, as I wasn't clear at all before. I love the DreamHost wiki and have probably read every page on it, I am constantly surfing the wiki getting tips and I used to (right when the wiki was first launched) post links on some of the articles I liked that linked to a highly relevant article on my blog. I never link spammed, and the closest thing that I can think of that I ever came to link spamming was posting the "Vote for DHSOTM" image and link of the TALK PAGE of the DHSOTM page.. hardly what I would view as link spam since it showed DreamHosters how they could get involved in the DHSOTM contest and how they could optimize their chances.. I forgot to mention that I also posted a link to vote on MY USER PAGE. I'm still totally bewildered with how either of those could be seen in any negative way, since they benefit the customers of DreamHost and DreamHost.

So yes I love the wiki and I am in no way suggesting it should go away or the admins should be changed, all I am saying is that it was nice when I was involved and posting people to super helpful and relevant articles on my blog about a topic, and it was especially nice to see all the wonderful comments that I received on those articles on my blog form DreamHost customers who praised me for my contribution and helping to solve their problem or provide an alternative solution. That is the real story, the DreamHost customers who use the wiki (and who the wiki is FOR) loved my links to helpful articles and if you want you can take a look at the wonderful comments that are sprinkled throughout my blog on many different topics.

I would say thats the only thing I am 100% convinced is wrong about the wiki. I should be able to link to my articles if no one else has done so because it freaking helps the DreamHost customers and provides real added value to the wiki. If I were in charge I would do what I do on my blog, I would examine the value of each link, regardless of who posted it, and if its good I keep it, if not I remove it.. My blog is running 100% open-source, and in fact I contribute to the WordPress open-source software quite a bit by publishing free wordpress plugins for anyone to use for free.

I could easily log onto the TOR network and create sockpuppet usernames for the wiki and this forum, but I have never done so and I never will, THAT is the real problem, that all of my links would't be link spam if just the letters in my username were different. But I'd rather fight a broken system like that when I BELIEVE it can be fixed then try to worm and weasel around it to accomplish the same goal: helping dreamhost customers.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
As far as having me lawyer phone yours, don't be so naive

I never said any such thing. You are confusing me with someone else. I'm the one who said bringing in lawyers was silly.

In reply to:
all I am saying is that it was nice when I was involved and posting people to super helpful and relevant articles on my blog about a topic, and it was especially nice to see all the wonderful comments that I received on those articles on my blog form DreamHost customers who praised me for my contribution and helping to solve their problem or provide an alternative solution. That is the real story, the DreamHost customers who use the wiki (and who the wiki is FOR) loved my links to helpful articles and if you want you can take a look at the wonderful comments that are sprinkled throughout my blog on many different topics.

Except that isn't how it worked at all, is it? The links you posted started springing up all over the place, and pointed to pages with advertising all over them. Some of the links pointed to pages that talked about how to use misdirection and obfuscation to boost DreamHost referrals or vote for your site in the DHSOTM contest. Then you tried to apply an invalid license to the contributions you were making (which is still inappropriate, BTW). In fact, almost all of your earlier wiki edits appear to have been geared to driving traffic to your various websites.

I left messages on your wiki talk page, thanking your for your contributions but warning you about some of the links, etc. I even offered up a solution to your attribution problem. If you find yourself in a bind because you ignored my warnings and advice, you only have yourself to blame.

-- si-blog --

In reply to:
Except that isn't how it worked at all, is it? The links you posted started springing up all over the place, and pointed to pages with advertising all over them.

Ok Mr. Bigshot wiki op with all the right answers, I challenge you to LIST the page title I edited, the link I posted, and the title of the page I linked to. Noone will be surprised to learn NONE of it was spam.

In reply to:
I left messages on your wiki talk page, thanking your for your contributions but warning you about some of the links, etc. I even offered up a solution to your attribution problem. If you find yourself in a bind because you ignored my warnings and advice, you only have yourself to blame.

Do you call 10,000 unique visitors to my blog every day being put "in a bind"? Do you know how many unique visitors per month I get from the DreamHost wiki? 300!!!!! Wow I am rich.. I have literally hit the SEO goldmine of the century! *sarcasam*

That really makes it undeniably obvious that I am here to help people who are interested in open-source and learning cool tips to better the net for themselves and the world, DEFINATELY NOT to drive traffic, which I most certainly do not need or desire, and even if I did want traffic, the wiki would be the LAST place aside from this forum that I would use to try to gain traffic... I would've that this was obvious to everyone... I guess logic doesn't really play much of a role in your bias against me, which leads me to believe these attacks and harassment are personally motivated.

Boooooooost DreamHost Referrals!

In reply to:
I challenge you to LIST the page title I edited, the link I posted, and the title of the page I linked to. Noone will be surprised to learn NONE of it was spam.

As I stated earlier, I will not be visiting your site because of all the iffy cookies and redirects, etc. Your edits on the DreamHost Wiki are a matter of record. A high proportion of your earlier edits where adding external links to htaccesslite and askapache sites, managed by your good self. At the time (I have no idea if this is still the case, because I don't go to your sites) they were short articles, often repeating existing documentation, and displaying advertising.

In reply to:
Do you call 10,000 unique visitors to my blog every day being put "in a bind"?

I couldn't give a frog's fat ass how many visitors you get. Boasting about site traffic is incredibly lame, frankly. By "bind", I meant being blocked from editing the wiki.

-- si-blog --

Here are two opinions I'll throw out there where I honestly want your (Mr. Apache) and everyone's feedback:
1. I don't think people should add links to their own sites in the wiki. If a link is valuable, other people will add it. Adding links to your own site creates the specter of self-promotion. If a site is worth linking to, someone will link to it. If you have content you believe to be extremely valuable as a wiki topic, add it to the wiki. Generally speaking, *I* think the links from the wiki should only be to content which would be generally considered definitive on the subject rather than just merely "good". That is, if the reason for a link being special is in any way associated with the author being associated with the wiki or the person doing the edit, then that's a bad reason.
2. As you should (and do) know, the SEO value of a link does not derive from the actual number of people traversing the link, but rather the incremental pagerank value that you inherit from the referring page as well as the terms used in the link text. Additionally, since the pages of the wiki *are* viewed as definitive in the context of DreamHost, they will themselves be ranked highly and so links from them have very high SEO value. The Google pageranks in the wiki range from around 5/10 to 7/10, making links from them very valuable from the SEO perspective. You know this and with your dedication to free content and open source, should embrace the idea of keeping the wiki free of SEO leeching links.

1. We have already established a good linking policy for the DreamHost Wiki. It is, broadly-speaking, pretty much what you just said. The main difference is that we allow latitude on a personal user name space.

2. The SEO value of links on the DreamHost Wiki is now being limited by the inclusion of rel="nofollow" attributes on all external links. Although only a few search engines and indexes support this feature, it will certainly reduce the value with companies like Google.

-- si-blog --

I'm not going to give your site more hits (google bot or otherwise), and I know Scjessey said he has no intentions of replying to you, but I can link to the wiki article & history of your edits associated to your adding links of your site to it:

In reply to:

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=PHP.ini&diff=17421&oldid=17417 << PHP.ini spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Talk:DHSOTM&diff=16635&oldid=16621 << Jeff (of DreamHost) says Cduke250 is spamming the wiki.

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/Talk:Environment_Setup#Proposed_External_Links << At least he asked here.
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Environment_Setup&diff=16918&oldid=16917 << which were later moved here...

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=PHP_FastCGI&diff=8993&oldid=8992 << "PHP FastCGI" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=PHP_FastCGI&diff=15687&oldid=14084 << which was thankfully removed here
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Talk:PHP_FastCGI&diff=12282&oldid=9003 << but was moved here instead
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Talk:PHP_FastCGI&diff=15685&oldid=15684 << and was made even worse here

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Talk:DHSOTM&diff=15675&oldid=15674 << DHSOTM spammage. Why can't you just ask the question without linking to your site?

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Backup_MySQL&diff=15703&oldid=15665 << MySQL spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Server_Statistics&diff=15689&oldid=14090 << "Server Stats" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Password-protecting_directories&diff=16484&oldid=14089 << "Password-protecting directories" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=KB_/_Unix_/_.htaccess_files&diff=15690&oldid=14088 << ".htaccess files" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Bots_spiders_and_crawlers&diff=15701&oldid=14100 << "bots spiders and crawlers" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Custom_error_pages&diff=15700&oldid=14099 << "Custom error pages" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Mod_rewrite&diff=17817&oldid=17816 << "Mod rewrite" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Mod_rewrite&diff=8278&oldid=8254 << And some more "Mod rewrite" spammage
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=WordPress&diff=15699&oldid=14098 << WordPress spammage (several links)
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php?title=Htaccess&diff=14094&oldid=14003 << Htaccess spammage (which btw, hasn't been removed)

Now mind you - your articles ARE informative and, in most cases, quite useful. However, supplying the articles yourself along with the fact that you almost never (I found one instance of it) linked to sites other than your own, would make almost anyone suspicious of your intentions. Your contributions were largely focused around providing links to your site and involved very few and far inbetween additions to the wiki itself, as far as content is concerned.

I'm not convinced of your claims of being "innocent" based off of this research alone.

In reply to:

Adding links to your own site creates the specter of self-promotion.

I have to agree this is true, though I would prefer a better solution than prohibition in all cases.

Looking at the two cases presented in this thread (askapache and scjessey), there are material differences between them, IMHO.

- The pages linked on askapache's site have ads. Scjessey's linked pages do not have ads (other pages do, but those are not linked from the wiki). With Simon, the linked content is "clean and pure".

- Considering both sites "in total", askapache's page links mislead and misdirect. Scjessey's do not (a link which appears to go to his site actually does so, a link to sign up using his promo code is clearly labeled as such, the linked DH logo does go to the DH home page).

My (scum-sucking soul-leeching, but damn-good) lawyer once said "sometimes it is not what you do, but how you do it". Just like Simon's links in this forum, his links to content from the wiki are "below the spam line". Askapache's links are way above it.

But, without a clear definition of a "spam line" in the wiki, as clear as the line in this forum (hey, could a line actually be added to the template here?), I have to agree with the statement quoted above.

So, to continue with my opinion: Of course there is self-promotion in both cases, it is just that one of them strikes me as sweet as a rose, and the other smells like a pile of foo.

Regards,
Rudy

have you asked apache.org how they feel about your rip site at askapache.info? you forgot to delete their copyright info at the bottom while you were mixing your links in with theirs.

Just an FYI on this, 'askapache' has had his Rewards privileges permanently revoked.

It is absolutely unacceptable to:

1. Repost entire pages from our site verbatim (outside of obvious Fair Use) without permission, particularly in order to benefit financially from it.

2. Rewrite links from said quoted text so that they become Rewards links, as if we were linking there ourselves.

3. Represent their site as somehow being "sponsored" or otherwise endorsed by DreamHost Web Hosting if that is not the case. Participating in Rewards is not the same thing as being endorsed by DreamHost itself.

4. Otherwise misrepresenting your relationship with DreamHost, particularly in order to benefit financially from it.

5. Spamming forums - including our own - in order to lure prospective DreamHost customers to your site in order to obtain Rewards using thinly veiled promotional techniques.

Anyhow, I think we've made it very clear in the past that this sort of thing would not be allowed or tolerated. If anyone sees this sort of thing in the future, please email TS and ask that the message go to Abuse/Security ("attn. Jeff C.").

Thanks to those who contacted us about this particular case.

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

If you actually read their copyright you would know it is perfectly legal to copy their content as long as you keep their copyright statement.

AskApache Web Development Blog

The way I see I have several different ways to respond.

1. Go through each of Jeff's items in complete and total detail and provide explicit proof that not a single one of these items have occurred.. I don't blame him, its hard to have an open mind when your buddies tell you what to think before you get a chance to see for yourself. Then I could press my case to the higher-ups and other DH employees I've gotten to be friendly with and hope that it this will be temporary. The loss of business and SEO that DreamHost is going to lose from the removal of DreamHost articles, links, reviews, howtos, tips, tricks, etc. on all of my various sites is going to be staggering, and its hard to believe, truly, that anyone who actually owns DH or controls the money will be happy about it.

2. Have my lawyer file a loss-of-income suit against DreamHost, and possibly some defamation actions based on Jeff's (a DH employee and representative) public post defaming me and my business in a particularly humiliating way.

3. Move webhosts and devote my blog and readership to the opposite of what it is now, namely, it would become the center of the web for why NOT to go with DreamHost. All the other DreamHostSucks.com sites would look like childrens jokes compared to what I am capable of, because unlike them satisfying themselves emotionally, I am only interested and focused on results, so my goal would be chapter 11, and much more geared to producing that effect.

4. Just stop linking to DreamHost and continue on my way, though I will feel sorry for DreamHost for all the lost revenue they will be missing.

Although 1, 2, and 3 are very appealing to a guy like me, I hate to be treated unfairly and I seldom lose, and even though I know how truly damaging I could be to DreamHosts bottom line while simultaneously profitting financially dramatically from their downfall, for now I am going to sit on this and think it through.

In the meantime, this is my last post here or on the wiki, unless I am able to rectify this grossly malicious and unfair action.

You guys beat me, you spammed your buddy jeff like you did the last time someone challenged you and you went after and successfully hit my pocketbook. Congratulations, but I promise you this won't be the last you'll hear about this.

AskApache Web Development Blog

In reply to:
If you actually read their copyright you would know it is perfectly legal to copy their content as long as you keep their copyright statement.

i read it but i don't read it as a welcome mat for scraper sites that inject their own links. it's deceptive because it can be mistaken for an official site and it's not one. like most scraper sites it looks like you just want to rank for exact phrases that are on the original site.

i think you're just not good at understanding what is or isn't acceptable, even after reading it. your rewards getting nuked seems to confirm that.

i also think that your site is in violation of the trademark section of their terms.

i think the way you got your rewards nuked will probably end up getting your hosting nuked too.

In reply to:
If you actually read their copyright you would know it is perfectly legal to copy their content as long as you keep their copyright statement.

What about this part:

In reply to:
You must cause any modified files to carry prominent notices stating that You changed the files; and

Do you think it doesn't apply in your situation?

All right, I'm closing this thread for askapache's own good: The one thing I tolerate even less than spamming and misrepresentation are baseless and unsupported threats of legal action, "going public", or "hurting our bottom line". We don't respond well to threats.

In fact, trying to put pressure on us like this is a good way to get us to enact our 30 Day Termination Clause. We are not obligated to continue a business relationship of any type with anyone, and any loss of income incurred by disabling someone who abuses the privilege of using DreamHost Rewards are - quite frankly - a drop in the bucket compared to that we receive from those who use our Rewards program in a consistently ethical and/or allowed manner.

Anyhow, you may consider this decision definitive. You were given fair warning on multiple occasions and blew it. I highly suggest that you stick to your option #4.

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

Its called synergy, that means we all win not all lose

Its called synergy, that means we all win not all lose

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Re: Its called synergy, that means we all win not

Re: Its called synergy, that means we all win not

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