No XML support in PHP 5?

I hate to complain so soon after the rollout of PHP 5, but I just noticed that the XML extension isn't enabled. (Try a script with xml_parser_create() to see what I mean.) Was there a problem with libxml, and can we expect to see XML support in the future? I was expecting to run into some compatibility problems due to the language changes in PHP 5, but I'm admittedly disappointed to see default features removed.

Nevertheless, thanks for making PHP 5 available.

> I hate to complain so soon after the rollout of PHP 5, but I
> just noticed that the XML extension isn't enabled.

I don't remember the details, but there was some discussion internally about this. It seems that the XML support has some dependencies that are, in a word, 'difficult' to support with the current version of Debian. I believe this might be resolved when the next major rev comes out in a couple/few months, though I can't guarantee it. If it's an issue in the meantime, you may want to consider compiling your own PHP 5 binary.

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

In reply to:
It seems that the XML support has some dependencies that are, in a word, 'difficult' to support

That's a real pain. What about the issues surrounding register_globals, magic_quotes_gpc, register_long_arrays, etc.? I'd very much like to see these disabled before developers get used to them being on. Also, what about the mysqli extension?

Since we now have MySQL 4.1, --with-mysqli would be very beneficial.

If you don't mind my asking, how about OpenSSL support?
I have a very basic Digital Signature verification script that unfortunately does not work on DH because it's compiled --without-openssl :(

In reply to:
I don't remember the details, but there was some discussion internally about this. It seems that the XML support has some dependencies that are, in a word, 'difficult' to support with the current version of Debian. I believe this might be resolved when the next major rev comes out in a couple/few months, though I can't guarantee it. If it's an issue in the meantime, you may want to consider compiling your own PHP 5 binary.

Actually, that's not the case. LibXML2.5.10 works prefectly fine. I happen to have LibXML2.6.18 installed in my home directory and PHP5 compiled with XML support. it works perfectly. I use simple_xml with no problems at all.

I don't know if *other* apps will have problems with LibXML2.5.10 or above, but being that 2.5.10, in itself, is over 2 years old, I would assume not.

Yeah, it's not so bad when you're just doing a single install compiled from source, but it gets harder when you deal with packaging and dependencies so the software will install and play nice on a few hundred machines...

Basically the libxml package we would backport from newer Debian requires lots of new versions of other packages, some of which have other dependencies that require new versions of other packages, etc.

I'm still pretty confident we'll be on schedule for an upgrade to a new release of Debian in about 2 months, and then we'll be able to easily support XML in PHP5!

nate.

In reply to:
Basically the libxml package we would backport from newer Debian requires lots of new versions of other packages, some of which have other dependencies that require new versions of other packages, etc.

I'm still pretty confident we'll be on schedule for an upgrade to a new release of Debian in about 2 months, and then we'll be able to easily support XML in PHP5!

What about the other stuff?:

"What about the issues surrounding register_globals, magic_quotes_gpc, register_long_arrays, etc.? I'd very much like to see these disabled before developers get used to them being on. Also, what about the mysqli extension?"

Ouch, that's really gonna hurt some users upgrading to PHP5. Espcially since XML is becoming such a big main-stream in data processing.

Even I use it to do some very basic RSS parsing.

I'm rather suprised to see such a requirement on dependances just by upgrading the libXML libraries.

Well, now that I think back, I guess I'm not that surpised after all. When I upgraded it on my RH9 box, I had to upgrade all of Python, for some godly unknown reason, just to install the bloody libraries.

Some of the dependencies built into some of the Debian packages are pretty heinous. We have backported a significant number of packages but some of them are tied into core libraries and get very dirty. At this point, it makes the most sense for us to focus on rolling out Sarge onto all of our hosting machines instead of spending too much time backporting Sarge packages to Woody.

- Dallas
- DreamHost Head Honcho/Founder

I can completely understand the packaging problems. In fact, I tried to manually install libxml2 from source a while back for some reason or another, and had an exasperatingly difficult time of it.

I'm content to wait a couple months for the new Debian release, but I'd like to respectfully make a couple tangential points:

1) I think I speak for most users when I say that -- all things being even -- I don't like to install core packages such as PHP, Ruby, libxml, etc. in my home directory because I don't want the burden of installing them and resolving their dependencies, then keeping each component up to date over time. This sort thing is something I'd prefer the server admins to do.

At the same time, I understand that you want to rely on Debian's package management system as much as possible so that your systems don't veer into unmaintainability. But is there any possibility of finding a Linux distribution that is reasonably stable but perhaps runs on a slightly more aggressive release schedule? Another possibility would be to offer Debian stable servers for the majority of users, but to offer slightly more bleeding-edge setups for users who need newer software, with the proviso of course that the latter servers may not be completely stable.

2) Any time an upgrade such as this introduces unexpected changes to the prior configuration, could this information be included in the upgrade announcement? Any upgrade is going to cause some pain, but I'd prefer to avoid surprises like this when possible.

(BTW, I'm impressed with the fact that you made the upgrade to PHP 5 optional and configurable via the panel.)

Thanks again,
Jacob

In reply to:
"What about the issues surrounding register_globals, magic_quotes_gpc, register_long_arrays, etc.? I'd very much like to see these disabled before developers get used to them being on. Also, what about the mysqli extension?"

Oops, forgot to reply to this yesterday.

We're planning on leaving all of these options to the PHP defaults. We don't anticipate problems since scripts targeted to PHP5 ought to be assuming the defaults anyway.

Hopefully the PHP people won't change the default setting of this crap in future versions like they did with PHP4!

nate.

In reply to:
We're planning on leaving all of these options to the PHP defaults.

Hum, the defaults are off! But you have them on. :( Or how about I put it as: They current settings are not the PHP5 default settings (minus your security "lockdowns").
http://www.gpcentre.net/info.dphp vs http://www.gpcentre.net/info.php (everything but include_path is set per php.ini-recommended*)

*

In reply to:
[yerba]php-5.0.4/$ diff php.ini-recommended ~/php/lib/php.ini
491c491
< ;include_path = ".:/php/includes"

In reply to:
We're planning on leaving all of these options to the PHP defaults.

Ya need t' change 'em back then, m'laddie!

Yeah, duh, the guy who packaged up PHP5 messed up and included the wrong php.ini

I fixed it. Everything's from the php.ini-recommended in the PHP5 distro.

nate.

In reply to:
I fixed it. Everything's from the php.ini-recommended in the PHP5 distro.

Woohoo!

We appreciate it immensely Nate!!!!

For those of you who want PHP XML support, just thought I'd drop you a note: This is going to happen sooner rather than later. Keep an eye open for an update coming out Real Soon Now.

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

*hugs Jeff*

-- www.thecoffeeboy.com

.o/
I can't wait.
I was just thinking about a simple_xml project.
I was going to put it on another server, but I think I'll just wait instead :D.

We look forward to it Jeff.

In reply to:
For those of you who want PHP XML support, just thought I'd drop you a note: This is going to happen sooner rather than later.

Excellent news. PHP 5 is supposed to make using XML a much simpler prospect, so I look forward to its availability.

*waits in line to hug Jeff*

jason

Those on Yebra have the benefit of using it now. ;)

Now they just need to get mysqli working and I might even be able to use it on my sites!

The mysqli function requires MySQL 4.1 so we can't turn it on until we have no more mysql installs running any prior versions. One step at a time.

- Dallas
- DreamHost Head Honcho/Founder

Requires MySQL 4.1 *client*. I thought MySQL client was already upgraded to 4.1+ on all the servers a long time ago?

I installed mysqli with w/out any troubles a couple months ago with PHP5, while the server was still 4.0.8 (ish).

Ah, I didn't know that. The php docs don't specify:

http://us4.php.net/mysqli

I assumed it was doing something that had to be supported by the server.

- Dallas
- DreamHost Head Honcho/Founder

Not exactly. mysqli just added support for 4.1.3+ features within MySQL.

Plus you can compile mysqli and MySQL within the same PHP binary. Use mysqli for 4.1.11+ and MySQL for 4.1 and below. Best of both worlds. ;)

Just need the libraries to compile against, which are already on the server, so it'll work.

PHP5 should have XML support on all of our shared hosting servers now. Let us know if you have problems with it or your PHP5 doesn't seem to have it.

- Dallas
- DreamHost Head Honcho/Founder

Yay for DreamHost! :)

bryan | website

So should this mean that XSL also works? http://us3.php.net/manual/en/ref.xsl.php says

"PHP 5 includes the XSL extension by default and can be enabled by adding the argument --with-xsl[=DIR] to your configure line. DIR is the libxslt installation directory."

I'd rather not compile PHP in my directory, so I just wondered if this is included at DreamHost.

Included doesn't mean enabled by default. Gotta use --with-xsl to install that.