Adult Hosting

As you know, I want to host an adult website. I already know that it's allowable. But I want to know what you mean by the word "legal". My kind of adult site is going to be anime-related (mostly fandom), but what I'm afraid of is copyright infrigement. So I was wondering if I could put up a special page where I can list all the copyrights. I'm doing this for two reasons:

1. Respect for the makers
2. A lot of hentai (anime porn) websites put disclaimers everywhere, especially in fanfiction. By making this single page, it'll even help reduce my disk quota once I sign up.

Is this okay?

If you're not the copyright holder or you don't have the express permisson of the copyright holder, you probably won't be cool under Dreamhost's policies.

That's what I want to know about. I don't want to start publishing my web server only to find out that I've broken a law.

And I don't want to host this website on an actual adult server. They're probably gonna want me to advertise pornography, or make it password protected so that only subscriped members can enter (ie: you gotta pay). My website won't be for profit gain.

At the same time, I've never done webhosting before, so this really is my first time in doing it (no pun intended).

Seems the only way I can explain it is if I give you links to some websites I know. I can't do that here due to the family-friendly rule made in the beginning of the page.

You probably need to check with DreamHost. This is mainly a user forum although some DH staff check in now and then.

Cheers,
Peter

As far as being within the law, copyright is not to complicated. A work produced by an artist is fully copyrighted to him or her regardless if there is a copyright notice included with the work. (this is true for recently created art).

Legally you may only reproduce a piece of art with the 'express wirtten permission' of the author. That just means that you should have a document written and signed by the author that says no1wammy and may use my art on his website.

Now, that's what the "law says". Personlly I wouldn't think you need to be quite so strict. If you set up your website, and welcome artists to submit their work for display on your website, that should be good enough. You probably want to make sure that you and the artist understand each other, and agree to the specific use of the art.

So if I were to submit a piece and tell you that you have my permission to show this on your website. This agreement doesn't allow you to take part or all of their art and use it to advertize your website else where.

I have limited expirence with other fan sites, where art is being submitted, but I would also suspect that you'd want to make sure that each artist's copyright notice is displayed with the art, and that you make it obvious to visitors that this stuff is still copyright the artist. Some sites even go so far as to make it difficult to download the images to a users hard dirve.

I agree with the above post- you should double check with support and get their approval before you go very far - that will just cover you back. If anything should come up, you can honestly say that to the best of your knowledge you were acting in acordance with Dreamhost Regulations and in compliance with copyright law, and fair use regulations.

I think it's not going to make a differnece, but if you want, you are welcome to PM me with your links and more specific questions. (I'm quite of age, don't worry.)

Hope this helps.



-Matttail

Copyright also extends to "derivative works."

Just because I draw a picture of a Mickey Mouse doesn't make me the copyright holder... Disney still owns the right to the likeness. The same principle holds for anime like Robotech - even if the copyright holder is in Japan, they're still the copyright holder.

I'm not sure if this is the gist of the site you're considering. There has been a lot written about the good and bad that anime fan sites do: by putting pictures and videos on the internet, they've created a fan community that would have otherwise not had existed... the downside is that they've done it on their own, without permission, and the copyright holders haven't gotten a dime.

Check with support and good luck.

Matttail, how do I check my Private Messages?

At the top of every page in this forum, you should have a link "Send Private" and "Check Private". That's what you need.

TorbenGB

Then what's the Read Receipt for?

> Then what's the Read Receipt for?

After you send a message, you get a brief system notification message informing you when the recipient viewed the message.

Likewise, if someone sends you a message, they get a notification after you view their message.

Cheers,

BobS

no1wammy:
> I don't want to start publishing my web server only to find out that I've broken a law.

matttail

In reply to:

---

As far as being within the law, copyright is not to complicated.
...
Legally you may only reproduce a piece of art with the 'express wirtten permission' of the author. That just means that you should have a document written and signed by the author that says no1wammy and may use my art on his website.
...
I agree with the above post- you should double check with support and get their approval before you go very far - that will just cover you back. If anything should come up, you can honestly say that to the best of your knowledge you were acting in acordance with Dreamhost Regulations and in compliance with copyright law, and fair use regulations.

---

conspicuous:

In reply to:

---

Copyright also extends to "derivative works."

Just because I draw a picture of a Mickey Mouse doesn't make me the copyright holder... Disney still owns the right to the likeness.

...by putting pictures and videos on the internet, they've created a fan community that would have otherwise not had existed... the downside is that they've done it on their own, without permission, and the copyright holders haven't gotten a dime.

Check with support and good luck.

---

Copyright (and trademark) law is complicated. Fair Use is a right, but if you have doubts about whether somebody will object to your plans, you better have a lawyer lined up. Bottom line is if somebody challenges, you either fold or be prepared to fight back.

I don't claim to be expert, but it appears Disney may actually control Mickey with trademark, not copyright (if you can believe wikipedia).

If you're concerned about your Fair Use rights, support EFF. You might also learn a lot from their site.

Cheers,

BobS

> If you're concerned about your Fair Use rights, support EFF.

Which of the following legal victories should I be most aware of, in relation to my topic? What kind of victories have they've actually prevailed in, and not had to deal with a second time? Remember the P2P file-sharing issue? It's still ongoing as of today. The RIAA has already attacked Limewire and WinMX, two of the biggest P2P programs after Napster's demise. And I see no stop light in sight (just for a minute, I felt like I was rapping there).

Honestly, I do not want to get involved in such letigations. I don't want to see myself locked up behind bars. I have another dream I want to pursue besides this website. And I have so much respect for all the companies and industries that have created such titles, and have made quite an impact on the people. You can even say that they've built their own religion with these titles (Knowing that there is still a God in every one of us - sorry).

Proving your devotion to something is one thing. The direction is another tip of the iceberg - one which usually gets hit. In the end, everyone who's on that ship will drown into the bottom of the sea, one way or another. I don't want that to happen.

> what I'm afraid of is copyright infrigement.

> Honestly, I do not want to get involved in such letigations.

Then I'd suggest something like the TOS including copyright notice that Internet Archive uses, or Google's, and most of all be ready to "take it down" when notified.

BobS

Both copyright and trademark law have been invoked at times in the protection of fictional characters, their appearance, and their names. Use of a character might be regarded as a "derivative work" for copyright purposes, and the name and likeness of a character might also be subject to trademark law if it is identified in the public mind with one particular company (e.g., Mickey Mouse for Disney) and any other use of the character might cause people to believe it's endorsed by the character owner (and could be considered "tarnishment" if it's involved in something like pornography that some consider disreputable).

However, the law is very complex and murky on these issues, and there are numerous possible defenses under fair use (for parodies and other transformative works, for instance). Issues regarding fan fiction and fan art have no consistent case law, probably because copyright/trademark owners are reluctant to go to court against their fans due to the bad PR this causes, so actual cases are few, and are usually settled out of court when they occur because fans have little resources to fight back.

-- Dan

Wammy - I suggest you start with the copyright owners. Go back to them and get their permission in writing. Make sure there is a "WIIFM" in the deal - i.e. What's In It For Me? Offer them a % of the sales or subscriptions. This will actually help you as it might give you a stream of great content before anyone else and you will become a publisher for them.

Then get DH's ok and I can't see them worrying about it if the copyright owners have given their blessings.

I sell software that has pictures in it that we have contracted with the authors to provide. They get a % of the sales and can also sell the products on their own and pay us a %. When a customer comes to us and asks if they can use our software to publish e.g. a free brochure, we always go back to the authors to get their ok first.

Regards,
Peter

Note: I'm going to include a couple lines you will not find in this post. They are from a PM I received just today. Nonetheless, it's all replies from all you see here.

> Then I'd suggest something like the TOS including copyright notice that Internet Archive uses, or Google's, and most of all be ready to "take it down" when notified.

I had that on the back of my head right when this website was being developed. Mind you, I began this project back in 2001 - four years in the making.

Are there other websites that use something as similar to the Internet Archive or Google? Speaking of Google, I'm going to add a robot.txt to my site so that no other search engine will pick it up on their cache. Can I cache the contract of the page, at least?

> Use of a character might be regarded as a "derivative work" for copyright purposes, and the name and likeness of a character might also be subject to trademark law if it is identified in the public mind with one particular company [...] and any other use of the character might cause people to believe it's endorsed by the character owner (and could be considered "tarnishment" if it's involved in something like pornography that some consider disreputable).

You just hit the tip of the iceberg. But it won't be Disney or any of the U.S. cartoons - I'm not planning on using any of them. I did mention anime, you know.

> Issues regarding fan fiction and fan art have no consistent case law, probably because copyright/trademark owners are reluctant to go to court against their fans due to the bad PR this causes, so actual cases are few, and are usually settled out of court when they occur because fans have little resources to fight back.

I wrote to Mattail a few days ago, and he said that the way I control my website, in terms of artwork and fanfiction, are well within the law. Probably for the fact I'm trying to keep it clean in terms of content:

>> Ok, I was able to follow the links today. First I'll comment that the disclaimer of ******** is very thorough, and it might be you want to borrow from that. There's a little bit I didn't see come up on the forum. Becuase you're not able to do adult verification, you need to do what you can to make sure people have to read your disclamer first and click the link saying they're over 18.

>> I personally still think that you've got a great idea here, and are well within copyright. Just come up with a few disclaimers and the like and I think that you will be good to go.

I'll do that, Mattail. Thanks for the thought.

> Wammy - I suggest you start with the copyright owners. Go back to them and get their permission in writing. Make sure there is a "WIIFM" in the deal - i.e. What's In It For Me? Offer them a % of the sales or subscriptions. This will actually help you as it might give you a stream of great content before anyone else and you will become a publisher for them.

How will that help? My site is not going to be for profit gain. I think that's where the problem comes into play. Money, money, money...

Might as well get on with the project.

Thank you so much everyone. And thank you, Mattail, for helping me out with this mess.

I may come back and post, but only for web server set ups. By the way, I want to ask some followup questions:

1. What is Managed Web Hosting?
2. I heard that you don't support MySQL as well as other sites because they are run at different servers. How will this affect Coppermine and phpBB or mwForum (which I will include on the server)?

1 - Managed hosting in this case means shared hosting. You are sharing the server with other customers, but have your own "space". Dedicated means you are on your own server.

2 - MySQL is included in any dreamhost account. Not sure what that has to do with your comment re "other sites".

>> I heard that you don't support MySQL as well as other sites because they are run at different servers.

> MySQL is included in any dreamhost account. Not sure what that has to do with your comment re "other sites".

I think the question is: is it true that DH's MYSQL does not work as well as other hosting companies' because DH's MYSQL runs on different server systems than the apache/hosting servers.

Cheers,

BobS

well I didn't read through all of the posts, way to many, most of the time you can put a page up saying that if the copyright holders don't like the stuf being up to just tell and you will remove them, thats how most the anime-related sites I know worked, well the non-commercial ones that is
and I know some of them are hosted here on DH

Be careful. I don't think Mattail is an intellectual property attorney (at least he's never represented himself as one), so him saying you're probably okay is a far cry from the question of if you are within your legal rights to post this stuff to your site and most importantly (what I think the original post focused on), if Dreamhost will allow your site to remain up.

From what I've seen, Dreamhost is not a host that winks at you and looks the other way. Whether it's spam or copyright materials, they will bust you hard if you're on the wrong side of the issue. Do a search on these forums about BitTorrent if you want a better idea about the attitudes the bosses here have.

Whether your site focues on American animation or Japanese anime, international treaties are in place that protects their copyright.

My original advice stands: talk to support ahead of time about what exactly you're planning on doing and they'll let you know if you're okay. Otherwise, you might wake up one day to find out that your site has been pulled down and you're locked out of your account because Dreamhost has suspended you. I'm not trying to be chickenlittle here, but it's obvious your site is a labor of love that you have invested a lot of energy in... don't see it get taken away because you got some wrong advice.

As always, good luck!

> Do a search on these forums about BitTorrent if you want a better idea about the attitudes the bosses here have.

They don't allow BitTorrent, as discussed in Dreamhost's TOS.

> My original advice stands: talk to support ahead of time about what exactly you're planning on doing and they'll let you know if you're okay.

Ouch! I sent a contact memo to Dreamhost a couple months back, and they said it was allowable. I did state hentai on the memo, but I didn't recall describing my extent of the website, as in what the site's going to look like. Besides, I deleted the original reply from my Hotmail. I'm going to contact them again, just to make sure. This time, I'll be more thorough.

EDIT: I sent the message.Edited by no1wammy on 10/24/05 10:51 AM (server time).

Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission. But if it's a big job to set up the site then it's good you are asking first.

Good luck.

> Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

You just reminded me of a T.V. show I have to watch tonight.

But, anyway, I am feeling very nervous right now. I have a subscription that's not been paid yet, a story I want to write, music I want to create, a website I need hosting - I'm swamped.

"With this, you will pay a hefty price" - Jim Carrey

For those of you who host adult sites in America, are you aware of what's been going on? The FBI has shut down at least two sites, Red-Rose-Stories.com and ShadesBeyondGray.com. In the case of Red Rose Stories, their content included fictional pedophilia and bestiality stories, but Shades Beyond Gray did not (theirs was mostly homosexual/bisexual/transgender erotic prose and articles). The government is targeting sites whose content includes threesomes, BDSM, urination, defecation, and other "offensive" content. See these articles (among others):

http://www.ncsfreedom.org/news/2005/102005ObscenityWave.htm
http://xbiz.com/news_piece.php?id=10680

Other sites have begun censoring themselves (such as SuicideGirls.com) or shutting themselves down altogether (KinkyGurl.com and other BDSM sites).

Two sites you might want to bookmark or even become involved in are The Adult Freedom Foundation and The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom.

Jen
http://www.SassyDevil.com/

The original poster asked that I re-post my response to his support request to this forum:

> In the end, this really means it's all up to you - we're not able to give you advice as to whether something is okay to re-distribute, nor do we actively scan customer sites looking for infringing works. If you have a good reason to believe that the copyright holders will be okay with such re-distribution and are willing to accept the ramifications should a DMCA Notification be sent our way, you can post a piece of content and we're not going to stop you. However, you should be prepared to file a DMCA Counter-Notification stating that your use is legal if a complaint comes in - basically, a legal statement punishable under perjury laws. If you aren't comfortable do that, you probably shouldn't post the content.

I'm confused. Are you saying it's okay for me to post them if I surely know that the fan works do not offend copyright law and piss the FBI off, or should I host my site on another server? I know there's a website called HentaiKey which lets me do this, but the purpose of my website won't be to gain profits or advertise pornography. I'm very serious about the wellbeing of my site, not only by means of content, but by copyright. After all, fansites give credit to where it is due, even if they create derivate works.

(I will send you a private message explaining more on this.)

And, what's DMCA?Edited by no1wammy on 10/26/05 03:21 PM (server time).

This is the DMCA