wiki.dreamhost.com!

Hey Potential "beta testers"!

We've set up a DreamHost Wiki (community-editable documentation site) at http://wiki.dreamhost.com/ and before we announce it in the newsletter and the web panel, I thought we could maybe give some discussion forum folks a go!

So go, visit http://wiki.dreamhost.com/ now, and start creating some articles if you're so inclined! It's currently completely empty except for the first page!


josh!

This is great. It seems like a logical evolution of the aging 'Knowledge Base'. Seeing its it is practically blank right now though, it might be a while before its outta beta =)

Well, I hope to be able to help contribute articles. I'm going to try to review my past posts on here for my answers to the common questions and technical details that I'm familiar with, and write about Perl and Apache at least, maybe web page design too.


Perl / MySQL / HTML+CSS

Yes, a smart move. And I look forward to my contributing role (no matter how small it shall be) and learning more at the same time, just like I have been doing in this forum over the past few years. :thumbs up:

Is there a way to convert the kbase articles to the wiki? Or is the wiki meant to complement the kbase?

A couple of things. Maybe add a goodies section or something that could cover jabber, webdav, one-click installs :-) Maybe even a one-click install section on how to preform upgrades.
quote

In reply to:

---

Is there a way to convert the kbase articles to the wiki? Or is the wiki meant to complement the kbase?

---

It appears that wiki is meant complement that kbase and not to replace it. Dreamhost's Kbase is a lot easier for newbies and it is "official."

digitalrundown.com

Go for it! Any articles you feel like there should be, and anything you feel like could be edited to be easier to follow, just do it! That's how wikis work!

We can't say right now if we'll ever end up discontinuing the kbase or not. It all depends how well this wiki takes off.. ideally we would like to eventually retire the kbase, but we'll see!

josh!

This is great. I'll try and contribute soon.

me luv wiki...

In reply to:

---

start creating some articles if you're so inclined!

---

The Wiki is an excellent idea. I have already started making a contribution. Assuming that nobody abuses the system, I predict it will become more valuable than the Knowledge Base.

Nice!

In the break-it mode, I was able to register as a user with a blank password. Is this an oversight? I was able to change it though.

In reply to:

---

start creating some articles

---

I've done something for setting up Outlook Express (lots of people seem to ask about it), but I thought I'd ask if there were any particular areas that you would like to see given priority attention? Are there any popular support questions that would benefit from a wiki-based article, for example?

> Are there any popular support questions that would benefit from a wiki-
> based article, for example?

I'd focus on things that aren't very well documented in the KBase, or really are beyond the scope of our normal support (ie. weblog software usage questions, debugging of scripts, etc). A search through these forums should turn up a lot of recurring topics.

Of course, the wiki is a purely voluntary effort. Until such a time that we pay customers to write articles, I wouldn't write anything that bores you too much. :>

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

Bore us? I seriously doubt that...especially if any articles are written by whomever creates the DH newsletter!

Haven't tried it out yet, but I'm REALLY GLAD that DreamHost now enables one-click installation of MediaWiki. :thumbs up:

In reply to:

---

I'm REALLY GLAD that DreamHost now enables one-click installation of MediaWiki

---

Yeah, that totally rocks. MediaWiki is probably the best wiki software available to date. In fact, this one-click install concept is turning out to be a major selling point of DreamHost. Now for PHP 5!

I'd like one-click updates, too :-)

Wha'??! We can now install a wiki as one-click? HOOORAYY!!!!! That's awesome. I had hoped for TWiki (because I've been using that for years already and I'm running three TWikis on my DH account already), but I'll give MediaWiki a shot as well.

Great move, DreamHost. Kudos!

TorbenGB

Arghhhh, How many of you have started to work with the OneClick install of Wiki?

I installed it but cannot customize the very first page. I click edit but it still says "installation complete" blah, blah, blah...

Did you move the configuration file to the wiki's root folder?

When I first completed the one-click install, there was a WediaWiki "wizard" (web form) that I had to complete, and after that there was a configuration file that should be moved from ...(yourwikifolder)/config/ to ...(yourwikifolder)/
After that, it ran fine.

TorbenGB

I have a noob question.

I just tried the one-click installation and got the Wiki going.

Now I'm on the main page. I can create users. so I did. I can log in. So I did. Now what? I CAN'T create a new page.

I tried searching for a non-existant article. Expecting that it will return with an option to create an article on the search term. But nope!

So, what should I do!?

MediaWiki doesn't give you the option to create pages upon searching for a nonexistent page by default.

The easiest way to create a page is to type a URL in the form of www.example.org/wiki/New_Page_Name. You will be told "There is currently no text in this page" and you'll have the familiar edit tab at the top to add content.

Just about everything you need is in the MediaWiki User's Guide.

Would it be possible to restrict contributions to users who create an account or log-in? There has already been a need for policing, after contributions from IP-only users. It won't guarantee such incidents won't take place, but at least it will act as a subtle deterrent.

> Would it be possible to restrict contributions to users who create an account
> or log-in? There has already been a need for policing, after contributions from
> IP-only users. It won't guarantee such incidents won't take place, but at
> least it will act as a subtle deterrent.

Good idea. I have forwarded this along to Josh.


- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

The wiki's Main Page is an awful mess at the moment. Admins and contributors need to get together and figure out what to do with it. Please join the discussion if you have any thoughts about it.

Also, couldn't we hide the index.php nonsense with a bit of rewriting?

In reply to:

---

Good idea. I have forwarded this along to Josh.

---

This has become a higher priority. Someone with an IP of 24.196.190.253 just deleted the contents of an entire page. Fortunately, Kchrist was on hand to revert to the previous version.

> This has become a higher priority. Someone with an IP of
> 24.196.190.253 just deleted the contents of an entire
> page. Fortunately, Kchrist was on hand to revert to the
> previous version.

Yeah - I talked with Josh about it, and his opinion is that with the content rollback/revision functionality, any such abuse should be pretty easy to route around (ie. other users will police it).

I tend to think that logins are a good idea, though. Right now, we're waiting to see how it shakes out. If there's a lot of abuse, we may go to a login-only system.

- Jeff @ DreamHost
- DH Discussion Forum Admin

In reply to:

---

any such abuse should be pretty easy to route around

---

Quite true. That is definitely one of the great strengths of the wiki system.

I've tried the one-click install and when I go to access my config URL it just says:

The requested URL /wiki/config was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

Am I missing something?

In reply to:

---

Am I missing something?

---

This is the Beta Testing forum, so you are unlikely to get a meaningful response posting your message here.

Did you see and heed what was already posted here in this thread?

Good luck,

BobS

> This is the Beta Testing forum, so you are unlikely to get a meaningful response posting your message here.

Uhm, seems like the wiki is sort of in beta testing, so maybe this isn't such a bad spot for it?

When I (rarely) start a new thread, I do try to place it according to "forum" category, but otherwise don't hardly pay any attention to category/forum... never was very regimented about simple category or tree organization... who needs categories when we have google? :-)

Cheers,

BobS

In reply to:

---

So go, visit http://wiki.dreamhost.com/ now, and start creating some articles if you're so inclined!

---

I just thought I'd give a little bit of Wiki news. Since being unleashed, the wiki has grown to include many pages, which for the most part are nicely organized into sensible categories. We are having a little bit of trouble with spam (mostly of a pharmaceutical nature), but it isn't causing too much of a disturbance.

I think that the wiki is already proving to be a valuable source of information. Answers to many of the common questions posed on this forum can be found on the wiki, so I think it is a good idea for board regulars to make themselves familiar with what the wiki has - it will help when making responses.

Almost all the entries to the wiki over the last few days have been spam, followed by spam reversions. Is there any chance we can require registration?

It's a bummer to make it harder to edit, but sure, let's try it out for a bit.


nate.

There are intermittent problems with the wiki at the moment. Sometimes, the following error is being displayed:

"You must update your load-balancing configuration. See DefaultSettings.php entry for $wgDBservers."

In reply to:

---

"You must update your load-balancing configuration. See DefaultSettings.php entry for $wgDBservers."

---

Could this have something do to with it?

DrD:~ will$ traceroute -I wiki.dreamhost.com
traceroute to wiki.dreamhost.com (66.33.201.141), 64 hops max, 60 byte packets
1 192.168.123.254 (192.168.123.254) 11.457 ms 4.234 ms 6.990 ms
2 172.31.255.251 (172.31.255.251) 20.685 ms 17.689 ms 17.958 ms
3 192.168.22.1 (192.168.22.1) 13.757 ms 18.865 ms 17.098 ms
4 ge-6-3.car1.washington1.level3.net (63.210.41.193) 16.518 ms 21.918 ms 23.871 ms
5 ae-2-56.bbr2.washington1.level3.net (4.68.121.161) 17.057 ms 20.819 ms 17.329 ms
6 ae-0-0.bbr2.losangeles1.level3.net (64.159.1.126) 77.147 ms as-0-0.bbr1.losangeles1.level3.net (64.159.1.157) 118.755 ms 79.367 ms
7 ge-1-2-56.car1.losangeles1.level3.net (4.68.102.162) 91.817 ms ge-1-1-55.car1.losangeles1.level3.net (4.68.102.130) 95.936 ms ge-1-2-56.car1.losangeles1.level3.net (4.68.102.162) 110.227 ms
8 ge1-l3.dreamhost.com (4.78.192.66) 77.393 ms 78.201 ms 77.205 ms
9 do.cfdainfo.org (66.33.201.141) 107.891 ms 89.156 ms 77.759 ms
10 do.cfdainfo.org (66.33.201.141) 76.922 ms 89.182 ms 77.632 ms

Is the hostname messed up or something? It's also like this for dreamhost.com which is the same server.

happylittlethings.com

I'm getting the following error at wiki.dreamhost.com: "You must update your load-balancing configuration. See DefaultSettings.php entry for $wgDBservers."

EDIT: Doh, I guess I should have read the last post here before saying the exact same thing! Heh.

In reply to:

---

It's a bummer to make it harder to edit, but sure, let's try it out for a bit.

---

Since the "must register" policy was brought into effect, we have had no spam at all on the wiki. It may, of course, be just a coincidence; however, I'm hopeful that the new policy will deter most spammers.

In reply to:

---

"You must update your load-balancing configuration. See DefaultSettings.php entry for $wgDBservers."

---

This error is still coming up on the DreamHost wiki from time to time.

I'd like to thank whoever wrote the Installing PHP5 wiki bit, or contributed to it.
I was wondering how I can tell me server is actually running it. If I did phpinfo(), what would be different?
If I want to revert back to DH's PHP, how do I do this? Delete it or edit ini file? If I delete it, I just need to delete the PHP folders?

http://discussion.dreamhost.com/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=forum_programming&Number=24987&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&part=
Could someone write how to install IMAP support?
Or correct settings for IMAP for horde because I can't seem to get it to work... I asked DH and they said they won't/can't support my own IMAP programs which is fair enough.

Someone has created a user called "Anonymous" for the wiki, with "this user is for making anonymous changes" added to the user page.

I think the username should be deleted, because it discourages the very transparency that has made the wiki so successful (and spam free). Can one of the admins do this, please? I only have the ability to block the user for a specified time.

Simon,
I have a few issues with your practices in the wiki. Would you like to discuss them here, off-line, or elsewhere?

For DH staff: Who is the authority for settling differences, and what/where is the appropriate forum for discussions?

Regards,

BobS

In reply to:

---

I have a few issues with your practices in the wiki. Would you like to discuss them here, off-line, or elsewhere?

---

I don't really do much beyond adding material, wikifying existing material, and blocking the IP of the odd spammer. I have no objection to any problems being discussed here.

I believe Nate is the main wiki dude for DreamHost.

I think you're being arbitrary, inconsistent and heavy-handed, and I'm particularly concerned because Nate made you a sysop. You're making Jeff look like a softy. :-)

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/User_talk:Anonymous
Somebody created an ID called "anonymous," so you jumped on that even though the only reason logins were even required was to slow/stop spammers; nothing says "legit" info is required in registrations, and presumably no background checks are done. :-) I don't know if you actually blocked the user, but you implied you would. Surely you see trying to prevent anonymous contributions is futile (in context)?

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Image_talk:243a.jpg
Somebody uploaded an image, so without giving any justification, you demanded a good reason and threatened to delete it.

And yet this comes after you made this page:
http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Pink_Floyd
which was questioned by someone else, but you said it was just good fun.

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/User_talk:Atropos
You're apparently blocking IPs for a month. Do you check whether that might impact legitimate users who get that IP (from dialup or dhcp) after the spammer? Yes I know the odds are low.

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/Talk:Suggestions
Somebody created a Suggestion page, so you jumped on that, saying it's not the appropriate place.

http://wiki.dreamhost.com/index.php/User:Scjessey
Not that there's anything particularly wrong with it, but after all the whining about referral links, you included yours in the wiki. Yeah, I know it's just your personal page.

<semi-joke, semi-compliment>Lastly, you're doing so much there's nothing left for the rest of us to do.</joke>

BobS

This page is giving:

Warning: Cannot execute using backquotes for security reasons in /usr/local/ndn/web/wiki/includes/Image.php on line 498

numerous times, and does not display numerous images (supposed to display all).

BobS

In reply to:

---

I think you're being arbitrary, inconsistent and heavy-handed

---

It is important that the wiki is a maintained with a consensus, and if you genuinely feel that my work with the wiki is unreasonable then I will certainly take that into consideration. I'll try to answer each of the concerns you have raised.

In reply to:

---

Somebody created an ID called "anonymous," so you jumped on that even though the only reason logins were even required was to slow/stop spammers

---

I do not believe that anonymous contributions are in the best interests of the wiki, but I am quite prepared to be overruled on this matter. I am not so much concerned about the desire to have an anonymous name (along time ago, I used to always be referred to as nutellaconsumer, so I can hardly object), it is more a question of the motivation behind it in respect to the wiki.

Let me put it another way. I see nothing wrong with creating an anonymous name to act as a person's buffer between themselves and the internet at large, but deliberately creating an anoymous name for the purposes of letting anyone add material to the wiki anonymously seems like something that should be discouraged; however, I am quite prepared to be overruled on the matter if the consensus of wiki contributors indicates this.

I would only block the user if the username was misused (spam or offensive content).

In reply to:

---

Somebody uploaded an image, so without giving any justification, you demanded a good reason and threatened to delete it...And yet this comes after you made this [The Pink Floyd] page...which was questioned by someone else, but you said it was just good fun.

---

The Pink Floyd page was specifically linked to, and part of, my user page. The mysterious image that was uploaded does not seem to be associated with anything.

In reply to:

---

You're apparently blocking IPs for a month.

---

I had been blocking spammer IPs for 72 hours, but it was pointed out to me by Atropos that such a short time was ineffective. I haven't needed to block any IPs since we introduced the registration policy.

In reply to:

---

Somebody created a Suggestion page, so you jumped on that, saying it's not the appropriate place.

---

All I did was ask the question: "Shouldn't suggestions be confined to the appropriate place?" How is that "jumping" on it?

In reply to:

---

Not that there's anything particularly wrong with it, but after all the whining about referral links, you included yours in the wiki.

---

I do as much as I can for the wiki, and I see the referral link (which most others also include on their user pages) as a way to get something back for my efforts. If the wiki community feels that I should make the "referral" nature of the link more transparent, I will gladly comply.

In reply to:

---

Lastly, you're doing so much there's nothing left for the rest of us to do.

---

I think the wiki is such a cool idea. I've already learned so much by reading contributions I've had nothing to do with, that it seems reasonable to put as much effort it as I can.

> I do not believe that anonymous contributions are in the best interests of the wiki, but I am quite prepared to be overruled...
>I would only block the user if the username was misused (spam or offensive content).
> The Pink Floyd page was specifically linked to, and part of, my user page. The mysterious image that was uploaded does not seem to be associated with anything.

I'm not going to complain too much if it's just a matter of style of discussion and your forceful words may be safely ignored because you will limit your censorship actions to spam or "offensive" content.

However, "offensive" is subjective, and your reaction to the "squashed head" picture (versus the Pink Floyd picture) concerns me. Maybe that was a mis-interpretation, but the picture was only there from late June 8 to early June 9 before you demanded a good explanation. Who cares if it wasn't linked to? Does it do any harm? Can't you wait patiently and see before demanding explanations? Maybe the user is learning to do wiki, and didn't take the time yet.

You've already been implicitly overruled on anonymity because most users have no profiles, many have little or no identifying information, and at least one other explicitly states a purpose of hiding identity.

How many "linked to," extra pages not fitting "a manual for DreamHost Web Hosting knowledge" can be "part of" a user page before it becomes excessive or abuse?

> I haven't needed to block any IPs since we introduced the registration policy.

Good.

>How is that "jumping" on it?

Maybe not so much that one particular example, but in context of a few similar examples, it's a pattern of asking for (or demanding) explanations, or else. If jumping was too harsh, my apologies.

> referral link (which most others also include on their user pages)

Sorry, wrong, data shows otherwise. First, most other users don't include it, because most other users don't even have a User page yet. Second, Google and I could only find 3 with rewards.cgi and 1 with r.cgi, out of about 180 on the user list.

Interestingly enough, even TorbenGB doesn't include it now.

> a way to get something back for my efforts

Interesting to see you've come around on that. :-)

So, is using refer link also OK as a signature on changes one makes (i.e. on more than just the User page)?

> I think the wiki is such a cool idea.

Me too. And as a member of "the gigantic hordes of unwashed Happy DreamHost Customers," I want it to be as fun and "unleashed" as possible.

BobS

In reply to:

---

How many "linked to," extra pages not fitting "a manual for DreamHost Web Hosting knowledge" can be "part of" a user page before it becomes excessive or abuse?

---

Pardon me for asking, and please forgive me for not understanding the intricacies of wiki-dom, but what's the reasoning for having user pages in a "manual for Dreamhost Web Hosting knowledge" to begin with?

Furthermore, if there are going to be one or two people who will act as the "editors" for the wiki, perhaps a wiki is not the most suitable medium for this content? A traditional, more uni-directional publication with user submissions would likely be more akin to what the editors of DH wiki would like.Edited by Iri on 06/12/05 09:50 AM (server time).

> what's the reasoning for having user pages

Because that feature exists (I guess).

> if there are going to be one or two people who will act as the "editors" for the wiki, perhaps a wiki is not the most suitable medium

Can't speak for DH, but my guess is they hope to reduce overhead by avoiding frequent editing, as required for Kbase. Therefore, they hope a wiki will work out without having a couple "editors." Which is to say, if you're implying heavy "official" editing should be avoided in the wiki, then I agree.

BobS

In reply to:

---

Can't speak for DH, but my guess is they hope to reduce overhead by avoiding frequent editing, as required for Kbase. Therefore, they hope a wiki will work out without having a couple "editors." Which is to say, if you're implying heavy "official" editing should be avoided in the wiki, then I agree.

---

I am rather suspecting that that was the original intent. I am also suspecting that it will not work out quite so, albeit the jury is still out on that one. My thinking is that if the wiki is not self-sustaining a more traditional form of publication would be more suitable to the needs of a business such as Dreamhost. Even open-source projects needs coordinators, and you don't see Linux kernel being developed in wiki free-for-all fashion.

Of couse, if the DH wiki manages to become self-sustaining then so much the better.

I am, however, as of yet confused as to how Pink Floyd is relevant to Dreamhost's webhosting business. Perhaps the Dreamhost wiki is a true free-for-all? Anyone open to making a few wiki-pages about Disneyland?

In reply to:

---

I am, however, as of yet confused as to how Pink Floyd is relevant to Dreamhost's webhosting business.

---

It is not relevant at all. It was put there (early on in the wiki's development) as a humorous addendum to my user page. If a consensus of opinion thinks that it should be deleted, I have no objection.

In reply to:

---

You've already been implicitly overruled on anonymity because most users have no profiles, many have little or no identifying information, and at least one other explicitly states a purpose of hiding identity.

---

The example that you cite (Lorenzo) is an example of an established online pseudonym. That is very different from anonymity. For years, I used to have the online pseudonym of Nutella Consumer (I still use it for Amazon reviews).

In reply to:

---

Re: Pink Floyd:
It is not relevant at all. It was put there (early on in the wiki's development) as a humorous addendum to my user page. If a consensus of opinion thinks that it should be deleted, I have no objection.

---

This link may have been more thorough, and perhaps also more appropriate? That link would presumably have referenced what you wanted, yet avoids having largely irrelevant pages on DH wiki itself.

Also:
Consensus opinion in this case may be a crutch -- and ranks right up there with "silent majority" which has been the butt of jokes for over 150 years -- because the wiki seems to revolve around a handful, or even one or two, individuals making editorial decisions. With some of them more associated with Dreamhost than others. If the opinion of two individuals amounts to overriding "consensus" the wiki has greater problems than simple irrelevant material, in particular if those individuals are incapable of self-regulation -- which all too often is the case. In such a case I posit that the wiki should be re-defined from "a manual for DreamHost Web Hosting knowledge" to "insert-name's personal playground."

That said, I can see the value in such a service. Indeed, I might myself partake in this free-for-all, though I would much prefer if Dreamhost would set up a free blog service instead. How about it, DH?

On a more serious note I would request that those involved with the wiki excercise some self-control over their editorial decisions in that they would keep in mind the goal and purpose of this wiki and would pursue consistency in their decisions over its content. I do not think Dreamhost endeavors their wiki to be a replacement for Wikipedia, and as such it might be a great idea to keep DH wiki content more relevant to DH.

Simon said:

In reply to:

---

Almost all the entries to the wiki over the last few days have been spam, followed by spam reversions. Is there any chance we can require registration?

---

Nate replied:

In reply to:

---

It's a bummer to make it harder to edit, but sure, let's try it out for a bit.

---

It looks as if "a bit" has run out. As a consequence of this, we have started getting anonymous acts of vandalism again. As far as I can tell, we had no spam or vandalism during the time registration was required. Can we reinstate that policy?

There has been a bout of serious vandalism on the DreamHost wiki, performed by an infamous bot known as "Willy on Wheels". The bot moves pages, which (as far as I can tell) requires them all to be moved back by hand. It looks like almost 200 pages have been moved.

...and it looks like an infamous web developer has moved them all back already =)

Perl / MySQL / HTML+CSS

In reply to:

---

...and it looks like an infamous web developer has moved them all back already

---

I dunno about being "infamous", but yeah, I moved them all back. There were almost 200 pages and I was up until almost 2am dealing with it. Thank goodness for tabbed browsing - it made it a much less horrendous task.

> There were almost 200 pages and I was up until almost 2am dealing with it. Thank goodness for tabbed browsing - it made it a much less horrendous task.

Too bad we don't have a WoW reversal script*. As usual, destruction is easier than construction.

*Edit: If done with Ruby on Rails, it could be called RoRRoWoW (RoR reversal of WoW) or WoWRwRoR (WoW reversal with RoR). :-) Say those 3 times fast...

Thanks for posting that. I learned more than I ever wanted to know about:

WoW

Legitimate uses of sock puppets

Consensus in wikipedia

and more...

Cheers,

BobS

Thank you for moving the pages back.

After reading the links about Willies on Wheels and sock puppets I am more convinced than ever that I am living in an alternate reality and that I shall hopefully wake up one day and find that the greatest technological advance made by man has been the musical nose flute!

[quote]...made by man has been the musical nose flute[/qoute]

I didn't know there really was such a thing



-Matttail